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Cranks but doesn't start.


 
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ChadB117
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Post: #1   PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:20 pm    Post subject: Cranks but doesn't start. Reply with quote

My CEL came on and the car would lose power and jerk (misfire) badly. When I would let up off the accelerator it would quit, after a while the light would go off and everything would be normal again. When I checked the code, it said the Cam Position Sensor. The next morning I went out to start the car to go to work and it would just crank and crank. Nothing. I replaced the Cam Sensor and the Target Magnet thinking this would fix the problem, it didn't and now it says their are no codes. I was told that it might be the Crankshaft Position Sensor. So I replaced that next, still nothing. I checked for spark, that's good. I checked the fuel pump, that's good. I popped the cap off of the timing belt cover and checked that the cam is turning and the belt seems good, for what I can see.

What else might this be? When it cranks, it will try to start and then nothing but puff of white smoke coming out of the intake. I have a few ideas, but i want to see what you guys have to say first.
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Mr One World
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2001 Dodge Neon ES

Post: #2   PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is the timing belt has slipped. That could be why you originally had the cam sensor code.
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ChadB117
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Post: #3   PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's kind of what I was thinking, I really didn't want to dive into that right now. It's still too cold to work outside for long periods. I am in NorthWest Wisconsin. LOL. I have never changed the timing belt since I have owned the car, and I doubt if it was changed by the previous owner. It has around 188K miles on it.
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ducktapetg
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Post: #4   PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hot damn you are on borrowed time if the previous owner didn't change the belt/tensioner/water pump.
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NickKo
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Post: #5   PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChadB117 wrote:
That's kind of what I was thinking, I really didn't want to dive into that right now. It's still too cold to work outside for long periods. I am in NorthWest Wisconsin. LOL. I have never changed the timing belt since I have owned the car, and I doubt if it was changed by the previous owner. It has around 188K miles on it.

Do you have access to a garage ?? Think To work on a car during winter in WI., it's essential... If you have one already, that is half the battle.

- Nick
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-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-1999 4-dr DOHC ATX= UDP, Kirk Intake
-2000 Ply.LX with MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 in. exhaust
-2001 Ddg. ES with ATX = UDP and Magnum header...Syked PCM 'pending'.

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ChadB117
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Post: #6   PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I do not have access to a garage. But it has warmed up and I started tearing things apart. Got everything out today. The belt was very worn, but not missing anything. The tensioner was very weak too, as in did not hold tension very good. With a little effort, I could move it with my hands. I checked the timing marks before I took the belt off and everything did line up. So I'm not sure that this is the problem after all. I did notice a small amount of fluid on the #3 & #4 spark plugs. So I could have a small head gasket leak, but I don't think this would cause the no start condition I have. Any other Ideas?
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Mr One World
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Post: #7   PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The spark plug tubes tend to lose their press fit, and let oil seep in from the bottom. Unless the oil was really deep, I also doubt it would cause it to not start. It should at least fire on the other two cylinders.

Have you pulled the spark plugs to see what condition they are in? The cam sensor could have been pure coincidence and the plugs/wires might have been why it was misfiring.

Also, was the replacement target magnet for a 2003 to 2005 neon? If you got a 1995 to 2002 magnet, it probably wouldn't start. It should throw a code, but....
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ChadB117
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Post: #8   PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the target magnet from NAPA and it was supposed to be for the 2005, it did look identical to the one I removed. Is there only one correct way to install them? Because I didn't see any markings for installation. As for the spark plugs, it was when I pulled them that I noticed the fluid. It is not oil. Plugs 1 & 2 look good. Plugs 3 & 4 have possible coolant on them, but they did appear to be firing. That's why I'm thinking it's a head gasket leak between 3 & 4. But again, this shouldn't cause my crank but no start problem. I am at a loss, any and all ideas are appreciated.
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Mr One World
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Post: #9   PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coolant on the electrode side or the wire side?
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ChadB117
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Post: #10   PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Electrode side. I think it's coolant but not sure.
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ChadB117
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Post: #11   PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have it all put back together now, and it still wouldn't start. So got to looking for anything I may have missed. Checked for spark, fuel and compression. Everything was as it should be. Changed out the plugs, and I will be danged if it didn't start. So between the camshaft sensor, the crankshaft sensor and the timing belt kit with water pump...and it was the plugs. I am at a loss, it's running now so I'm happy. Just at a loss. The old plugs looked good, must have been something, though. And I think the wet plugs in 3 and 4 are from leaking injectors maybe. Going to test them next.

Has anyone else has plugs that look fine but are so bad the car will not start?

Thanks for the help guys.
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Donkeypuncher
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Post: #12   PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the gap on the old plugs, I know the gap can get larger with age. That might account for the wet plugs if the gap was too large to ignite the fuel.
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Mr One World
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Post: #13   PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the gap is a little wider, it can increase the voltage needed to jump the gap. How old/how many miles are the plug wires? Are they original Mopar wires, or off brand?

If the wires are getting stiff, or have over 80,000 miles on them, they could give you a repeat once the plugs wear a little.

For what the average set of crappy wires cost, Mopar, Bosch Optilayer, or Taylor SpiroPro are all about the same cost, and are the better bang for the buck. I have 9 years and ~130,000 miles on the Spiro Pro wires and they are still flexible as a wet noodle, and ~300 ohms resistance. They will easily outlive the car. Best $42 spent.

There are MSD, Accel and few other performance wires out there, but I can't vouch for how long they last.

I have used Taylor wires since the early 90's, and they always outlived everything I have installed them on. For the cost, and the results, I have been sold on them for a while. They are Made in USA too.
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NickKo
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Post: #14   PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had bad luck with fuel-fouled spark plugs.

Generally speaking, once I get spark plugs wet with fuel, then the only thing that seems to work, is to remove them. (And either replace them; or clean them & allow them to dry out, before reinstallation.) Either way, the fouled plugs have to come out.


- Nick
_________________
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-1999 4-dr DOHC ATX= UDP, Kirk Intake
-2000 Ply.LX with MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 in. exhaust
-2001 Ddg. ES with ATX = UDP and Magnum header...Syked PCM 'pending'.

Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #000009
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Mr One World
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Age: 52
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Posts: 19834
Location: Ashland, Ohio

2001 Dodge Neon ES

Post: #15   PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuel soaked plugs benefit from lining them up on the edge of the work bench, and getting them nice and hot with a propane torch.

Oxy-acetylene can work, but you need a small tip, and you can still melt the plug if you are not careful. Propane is by far the safest method.

I have seen oxy-acetylene used to clean nasty carbon deposits from a set of plugs to make them look new, but that takes a lot of practice to not melt the anode/electrodes off, but still burn away the deposits.

And these days, a fresh set of Champions is probably cheaper than the oxy-acetylene consumed. Laughing
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