Synthetic Oil Discussion / Which Synthetic Oil?

05srt4clone · Post by **05srt4clone** » Sat May 21, 2005 3:41 pm

I am leaning more towards Mobil 1 Synthetic and Mobil Oil filter for my first oil change. What oil do you guys use and what oil filters?

Thanks,
Ryan

eVilcreations · Post by **eVilcreations** » Sat May 21, 2005 4:28 pm

Mobile 1 Synthetic, and MOPAR Perf. filter

Post by **Diablo0** » Sat May 21, 2005 4:46 pm

Mobile 1 for sure or what I've been using, Leading Edge (ModernPerformance sells it) Either one of those are excellent oils.

As for oil filters... ACDelco is excellent, K&N, Mobil, PureONE

Ones to stay away from are FRAM!... those are a big NO NO for quality. DON'T buy fram! I've heard it several times from many different people and personally seen the quality of the filters, not good.

05srt4clone · Post by **05srt4clone** » Sat May 21, 2005 5:10 pm

What's wrong with Fram?

Post by **Diablo0** » Sat May 21, 2005 5:57 pm

Quality of the filters are horrid. They use a carboard bypass valve and the filter element not evenly spaced so parts are tightly packed while others are loose.

To quote the NTPOG Oil Filter Review page - http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/old_filters.shtml

The Fram filter appears well-made in terms of actual build quality (uniform pleat seperation, consistent glue, etc.). Contrary to The Mini-Mopar site evaluation, neither of the two Fram filters tested here had the "assembly" strings around the filter element, possibly a recent improvement made by Fram. There is a clear indentation where this string was (I presume it was removed prior to final assembly). The filter element is somewhat "fuzzier" than any of the Bosch, STP, or M1 units, though not as much as the Honda (US-made) media. I'm not sure how much this might deteriorate over time. The poor sealing of the plastic bypass would likely result in some continual bypass, and after only a few minutes of playing with the valve I was able to get it to stick open. This bypass design would appear to be very poor. My primary concern with this filter are the cardboard end caps- I would be suspicious that the cardboard would deteriorate over time and may come loose, especially considering that the cardboard is in the way (partially) of the oil flow. I would be particularly concerned about this in a racing environment where higher pressures are common

And the Mini-Mopar Page - http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

Fram Tough Guard TG8A -

This filter cartridge has a small outside diameter with a rather low filter element surface area (193 sqin), and features cardboard end caps that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals the rough metal backplate to the cardboard end cap and easily leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. If you have a noisy valve train at startup, this filter is likely the cause. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak. The backplate has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow.

The telltale signs for a Fram Extra Guard are: It has 8 small holes for the oil inlet and a thin, cheap looking backplate, and is currently stamped with a "2Y". There are 5 very small crimps holding the gasket in place. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will see a kind of "button" in the end cap of the cartridge (which looks like it's made of metal from there). This is the plastic bypass valve.

Fram Double Guard DG8A -

This filter has an improved filter element with more surface area (248 sqin), a heavy silicone anti-drainback valve with a good sealing surface, the same plastic pressure relief valve but with an integral screen to keep out large particles, and enough inlet holes for good flow. In my opinion, the only real drawback to this filter is that it is capped on each end with cardboard instead of metal.

The telltale signs for a Fram Tough Guard filter are: It has a better backplate that is usually shiny, with six larger holes for the inlet and 6 spot welds around the them. There are 6 large crimps holding the gasket in place. When you look through the inlet holes, you can see the orange anti-drainback valve. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will see a kind of "button" in the end cap of the cartridge (which looks like it's made of metal from there). This is the plastic bypass valve.

FYI... the page also mentions that Mopar Filters are well... here..

Mopar Filters (various)

These filters are Frams, Purolators, or Wixes. Mopar does not manufacture it's own filters, nor do they require anything special from these manufacturers. Since they basically paint them a different color, stamp them with a Mopar logo, and double the price, there is no reason to buy them. Sadly, the Mopar Severe Duty 53020311 filter is actually the worst filter of them all. It is a Fram Extra Guard.

05srt4clone · Post by **05srt4clone** » Sat May 21, 2005 10:51 pm

Nice to know.

Sticky??

reefSRT4 · Post by **reefSRT4** » Sun May 22, 2005 12:29 pm

Diablo0 wrote:Quality of the filters are horrid. They use a carboard bypass valve and the filter element not evenly spaced so parts are tightly packed while others are loose.

To quote the NTPOG Oil Filter Review page - http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/old_filters.shtml

The Fram filter appears well-made in terms of actual build quality (uniform pleat seperation, consistent glue, etc.). Contrary to The Mini-Mopar site evaluation, neither of the two Fram filters tested here had the "assembly" strings around the filter element, possibly a recent improvement made by Fram. There is a clear indentation where this string was (I presume it was removed prior to final assembly). The filter element is somewhat "fuzzier" than any of the Bosch, STP, or M1 units, though not as much as the Honda (US-made) media. I'm not sure how much this might deteriorate over time. The poor sealing of the plastic bypass would likely result in some continual bypass, and after only a few minutes of playing with the valve I was able to get it to stick open. This bypass design would appear to be very poor. My primary concern with this filter are the cardboard end caps- I would be suspicious that the cardboard would deteriorate over time and may come loose, especially considering that the cardboard is in the way (partially) of the oil flow. I would be particularly concerned about this in a racing environment where higher pressures are common
And the Mini-Mopar Page - http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

Fram Tough Guard TG8A -
This filter cartridge has a small outside diameter with a rather low filter element surface area (193 sqin), and features cardboard end caps that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals the rough metal backplate to the cardboard end cap and easily leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. If you have a noisy valve train at startup, this filter is likely the cause. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak. The backplate has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow.

The telltale signs for a Fram Extra Guard are: It has 8 small holes for the oil inlet and a thin, cheap looking backplate, and is currently stamped with a "2Y". There are 5 very small crimps holding the gasket in place. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will see a kind of "button" in the end cap of the cartridge (which looks like it's made of metal from there). This is the plastic bypass valve.
Fram Double Guard DG8A -
This filter has an improved filter element with more surface area (248 sqin), a heavy silicone anti-drainback valve with a good sealing surface, the same plastic pressure relief valve but with an integral screen to keep out large particles, and enough inlet holes for good flow. In my opinion, the only real drawback to this filter is that it is capped on each end with cardboard instead of metal.

The telltale signs for a Fram Tough Guard filter are: It has a better backplate that is usually shiny, with six larger holes for the inlet and 6 spot welds around the them. There are 6 large crimps holding the gasket in place. When you look through the inlet holes, you can see the orange anti-drainback valve. If you look into the center hole all the way to the top of the filter, you will see a kind of "button" in the end cap of the cartridge (which looks like it's made of metal from there). This is the plastic bypass valve.

FYI... the page also mentions that Mopar Filters are well... here..

Mopar Filters (various)

These filters are Frams, Purolators, or Wixes. Mopar does not manufacture it's own filters, nor do they require anything special from these manufacturers. Since they basically paint them a different color, stamp them with a Mopar logo, and double the price, there is no reason to buy them. Sadly, the Mopar Severe Duty 53020311 filter is actually the worst filter of them all. It is a Fram Extra Guard.

Can that be stickied?

Post by **Diablo0** » Sun May 22, 2005 10:59 pm

Done

scneonchic · Post by **scneonchic** » Sun May 29, 2005 10:58 pm

i use mobil 1 synthetic in mine

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Mon May 30, 2005 9:36 am

I think I'll be changing mine from Pennzoil Synthetic to Mobil 1 as well. The little service sticker on the windshield tells me that the previous owner used Pennzoil.

The car won't give me problems when I change, will it?

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:54 am

dblsg · Post by **dblsg** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:22 pm

i was under the impresion that one shouldn't use synthetic for the first couple of oil changes.....the whole breaking in thing...

Post by **Diablo0** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:02 pm

Break in is about the first 1,000 - 2,000 miles...

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:33 am

Change to Synthetic after 6k miles... its a proven fact that the neon motor under normal driving conditions does not really break in until 10kmiles.
Use 5-30 conventional at 3k and then switch to either 5-30 or 10-30 synthetic at 6k. 10-30 helped my piston slap go away but I sound like a diesel at idle, lifters dont like it....I did use 5-30 but then the piston slap was back...

03sxt · Post by **03sxt** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:29 am

I was just browsing through and I'll be changing my oil in the next couple weeks - Figured I'd post my question. My '03's at 61,000... Should I go with the synthetic or should I consider a 'higher milage' oil? Or should I wait til 90,000 or so before I switch to a high mileage forumula?

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:43 pm

Dont use that high mileage BS, it contains aditives not recomended in a DCX product.....been there done that....
Switch to 10-30 Synthetic for summer and then switch to 5-30 for winter...

scneonchic · Post by **scneonchic** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:37 pm

why switch to 5-30 for winter?

Post by **Diablo0** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:01 pm

Thinner weight. 10W is thinker when it's cold and put more of a strain on oil pump and crank when it's cold, expecially at startup. 5W is thinner when cold and puts less strain on so your car will start faster.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:26 am

You can run 5-30 in the summer if you want, less windage and rotational force, but 10-30 will have better protection in the summer....

Post by **Diablo0** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:41 pm

Really only when yoru engine is cold since when the oil warms up both will be the same weight. The only difference between the two is the viscousity when cold.

FYI, 5W is recommended year round by DCx

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:54 pm

DCX recomends 5-20 to be exact

It really depends on your mileage and how you drive.....I had a old K-car that used a 650CFM Holley double pumper, and I ran 20-50 in it....one because of the revs I did and two...because of how rich I ran....
I know there has to be a post somewhere that is the preffered and PROVEN method as for oil weight.....

GaryHowell · Post by **GaryHowell** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:44 am

The manual calls for 5w30. Don't run anything but 5w30. Synthetic is good, but you must realize the regular oil is now part synthetic, they can't meet the SAE standards without being part synthetic. I run Valvoline mostly, not the synthetic, and I change my oil every 2000 miles with a filter. I use AC filters. The changing of the oil & filter is the most important thing. I have never had an oil related failure of one of my engines. Changing it, keeping it clean is more important than the type of oil.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:38 pm

2k miles is actually pretty frequent....
Our local NAPA uses 10-30 Synth in all there work trucks and they have hit 250,000 miles without engine failure..

WiTeOuT · Post by **WiTeOuT** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:34 am

GaryHowell wrote:The manual calls for 5w30. Don't run anything but 5w30. Synthetic is good, but you must realize the regular oil is now part synthetic, they can't meet the SAE standards without being part synthetic. I run Valvoline mostly, not the synthetic, and I change my oil every 2000 miles with a filter. I use AC filters. The changing of the oil & filter is the most important thing. I have never had an oil related failure of one of my engines. Changing it, keeping it clean is more important than the type of oil.

Good advice Gary. I personally keep it on a strict 3,000 mile oil and filter change. I think being dedicated with your changes is the BEST way to go!

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:08 am

hey gary....fyi....DCx just announced about a month or 2 ago that they recomend 5-20 now...thats why I mentioned it

Sirdar · Post by **Sirdar** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:45 pm

My new SX 2.0 has 5W-20 on the oil cap.

Has anyone used Motrlube PAO Synthetic?

Post by **racer12306** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:35 pm

any synthetic is fine. supertech, penzoil, mobil1, etc. i personally do 5000 oci with mobil1 because it is the cheapest (besides supertech syn). i can go to wally world and get a 5 qt jug for $21 then go to advance and get a purolator filter for $3.50 and im set. i personally havent worked up the courage to use the supertech but im sure its fine, my dad uses it in my moms ion, sisters neon and his stratus on 5000 oci and has had no problems. he uses 10w30 mainly because it is hard to find 5w30 in the supertech syn. i personally would rather stick to 5w30 so that puts supertech syn out of the options for me. for more oil information check out the bobistheoilguy.com forums lots of oil information over there. very knowledgable people when it comes to lubricants and filters.

scneonchic · Post by **scneonchic** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:46 pm

is it better to use the mopar oil filter? thats what i used this time around, usually its just whatever they have at goodyear, but now i know how to change my own oil for the most part, no one ever explained to me exacly how and why to do everything till this past weekend

Post by **Diablo0** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:46 pm

I wouldn't use the Mopar filter... but thats just me.

Mopar Filters (various)

These filters are Frams, Purolators, or Wixes. Mopar does not manufacture it's own filters, nor do they require anything special from these manufacturers. Since they basically paint them a different color, stamp them with a Mopar logo, and double the price, there is no reason to buy them. Sadly, the Mopar Severe Duty 53020311 filter is actually the worst filter of them all. It is a Fram Extra Guard.

scneonchic · Post by **scneonchic** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:38 pm

uh oh

so what filter should i get next time?