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SOHC ITB's?

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03blackrt
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Post: #1   PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:57 pm    Post subject: SOHC ITB's? Reply with quote

I thought Id share what Ive been working on SOHC ITBs!

Ive been thinking about these for some time. Thinking about how to best package them inside the engine bay, how to most easily fabricate them, ect This is what Ive come up with.

The ITBs would consist of a five piece manifold. One piece being a mounting flange that can be machined from a 3 x 1 x 15 piece of flat aluminum. This piece would bolt to the head and have holes for the fuel injectors. There would be four individual runners that would bolt onto this flange. These runners would be machined from four 3 long pieces of 3 diameter extruded aluminum cylinders.

This seems to be the design that would require the least amount of machine work. The mounting flange could easily be made with a CNC vertical mill with only a few operations. The runners would likely require two operations on a CNC lath and a few operations on a vertical mill.

A roughly 15 piece of 3/8 stainless steel rod supported by eight ball-bearings would actuate four 2 diameter stainless steel throttle plates.

The runner length of the ITBs would be 4 long with the intake ports inside the head being about 4 long too, making a total runner length of 8. The inlet of the ITBs would be 2.5 inside diameter and 3 outside diameter, making it easy for a set of air filters or velocity stacks (of varying lengths) to be bolted onto them.


Here are some pics of the design sketches to give you an idea of what I'm talking about

( The green area is the mounting flange with the blue being the runner. The pink are is the actuator rod and the dark red the ball-bearing supports on either side of each runner. The yellow would indicate the cylinder head)














Anyways, Im currently setting up the CAM files and sourcing materials and hardware to get a cost estimate and will hopefully have a set machined this coming summer.

I think I've came upon a viable solution to bring a reasonably priced ($800-$900) set of CNC'd aluminum ITB's to the Neon aftermarket. Hopefully no one steals my ideas now that I've posted them Sad

I'm open to thoughts/opinions/discussion on the subject.
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racer12306
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Post: #2   PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be straight, if I do steal the plans. I won't sell the product.

Promise.
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ZeroChad
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Post: #3   PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome. I love your projects man. Nice throwback to the hacksawed head.
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Post: #4   PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can undercut the competition, I'd definately but a set.
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Post: #5   PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool I'll be following this project!
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Post: #6   PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at it, you're around the same price as AMM and Arthur, but with different one off parts. I'd def have to think about it for my build.
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Post: #7   PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itll be a completely custom piece. No use of cut up stock manifolds and throttle bodies.

I just finished the CAM (computer aided machining) file for the runners. Hopefully these pics will show what Im looking to do a little better. Three bolts (one on either side and one on the bottom) will attach this to the mounting flange piece. The bolts will come in from the "back" side of the flange and thread into the runner.







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Post: #8   PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How big are the tbs going to he at the inlet? From wha I read bigger is not always better. 45mm would probably work near the best.
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Post: #9   PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The inlet is 2.5" (~63mm). From my research, that is a good size to have for the SOHC intake valve size. This size will do the best job at compressing/acclerating the air into the engine at higher rpms.
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Post: #10   PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about the throttle bodies?

stock 52mm? or go with 1GN 49mm?
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Post: #11   PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The throttle body is built into the "runner" I've designed. The throttle plates I'll be using are 2" (51mm) in diameter.
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Post: #12   PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got it now.

Nice plan.
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Post: #13   PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

can i have your magnum intake manifold WHEN you do this?
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Post: #14   PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked

I will follow this very closely. One part of my 2.4 SOHC project would involve ITBs. And since you are already several steps ahead of me (and much more adapt at pulling this off) I very well may buy a setup from you.

Kudos and good luck sir!
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Post: #15   PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice and well thought out! I can't wait to see this lead to a tangible product. Good luck!
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Post: #16   PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I talked to Crane today, they're going to be regrinding cams in "a few months".
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Post: #17   PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a few more pics for someone to maybe make some sense of.





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Post: #18   PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

noobish question but would this be for race-only applications?
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Post: #19   PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The setup I'll be making should be street friendly, aside from any tuning/PCM issues that may come up.
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Post: #20   PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a bad ass street SOHC with ITB's oh hells yes im in,
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Post: #21   PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only issue when running on a stock style PCM, you're going to have to build a vac tank. This is what sick95sohc used:


The reason for seperating the MAP sensor from the main tree is so that there is less signal fluctiation to the map sensor.
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Post: #22   PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be using a vacuum reservoir that'll house the IAC, MAP sensor and a few vac ports.


The thing I'm most worried about is if the PCM throws a fit with the different, not-very-stock MAPS/TPS correlation
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Post: #23   PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the reason why the MAP sensor is seperate, to lower the fluctuation of the MAP signal when you tip into the throttle.
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Post: #24   PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty awsome stuff. I like how the IAC/vacuum log is intregrated into the mounting flange. That cleans it up considerably over external tubing. thumbup

Yeah, this may give some TPS/MAP correlation issues even on non NGC. But then again, going WOT with a 65mm on my GB with a 76mm inlet didn't do anything other than bog. There is, of course only one way to find out.
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Post: #25   PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going WOT on this isn't going to matter, it's the just around driveability. If I didn't still want to street drive my 98, I'd have done ITB's long ago. When I go MS, it'll def be ITB's.
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Post: #26   PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if this ever comes up, ill buy a project to use these on.
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Post: #27   PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

occasional demons wrote:
Pretty awsome stuff. I like how the IAC/vacuum log is intregrated into the mounting flange. That cleans it up considerably over external tubing. thumbup




I'm glad someone noticed that. I think it's a pretty cool part of the design. Very Happy

Though I am going to revise the vacuum porting design to reduce how many rmachining operations it takes to manufacture it. Less machining = less money!



I also think I now have the drivability problems solved. Very Happy
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Post: #28   PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

03blackrt wrote:

I also think I now have the drivability problems solved. Very Happy



Dime sized throttle openings? Laughing
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Post: #29   PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Offset cam on the throttle linkage?
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Post: #30   PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a "Mr. Fusion" to fuel the flux capacitor? (=
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