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Coil Over Plug


 
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Adionik
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Post: #1   PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:00 pm    Post subject: Coil Over Plug Reply with quote

Not sure if this might work for some of the 2.0 Neons, but certainly works for the SRT-4's. There are 3-4 in my city running them...they say they can notice a huge difference. I personally am going to let them iron out the kinks. Laughing









You use the coil packs out of a 2.7L Chrysler Sebring and shit. Apparently they're about $40 after tax for all 4 at the junk yard. Rock ON
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OB
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Post: #2   PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are they using for an ignition driver? A DIS PCM program would NOT be able to run individual coils without software modification. These guys are probably standalone. That's pretty advanced stuff for a street car IMO. Not worth all the trouble unless you need some serious spark.
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Post: #3   PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on how long they are. They will obviously work on any DOHC head. The SOHC heads require a longer reach plug boot. If they stick up far enough, they will work on an SOHC, but if they fit flush with the top, then they will be too short for SOHC apps.
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occasional demons
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Post: #4   PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OB wrote:
What are they using for an ignition driver? A DIS PCM program would NOT be able to run individual coils without software modification.


They are tieing the 1 and 4, 2 and 3 coils via A to B. Then using the stock PCM to basically fire them at the same time, just like the standard coils.

The only real gain, is no plug wires.
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Adionik
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Post: #5   PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

occasional demons wrote:
OB wrote:
What are they using for an ignition driver? A DIS PCM program would NOT be able to run individual coils without software modification.


They are tieing the 1 and 4, 2 and 3 coils via A to B. Then using the stock PCM to basically fire them at the same time, just like the standard coils.

The only real gain, is no plug wires.


Werd, I know the guys with full stand alones like EMS are really reaping the full benefits...

But wouldn't there be SOME gains from swapping over?

Chrysler reports 30% more power over conventional plugs.. bandhead
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ZeroChad
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Post: #6   PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think our ignition system really has a problem igniting all of the fuel in the cylinders. Lets say you were pushing 40lbs boost with water injection and god knows what, okay go ahead and do it and notice the diff.

I do like the idea of sequention ignition versus wasted spark though. If I were to do this, and I might eventually, it would be for that reason.
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Post: #7   PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adionik wrote:

But wouldn't there be SOME gains from swapping over?

Chrysler reports 30% more power over conventional plugs.. bandhead


The benefit comes with the proper coil driver. When they are fired individually they have more dwell time. Firing them like the conventional wasted spark set up, really gives them no huge advantage over the normal neon coil, other than no wires needed.

Edit: And is that 30% more sparking power? Because I don't see a 30% gain in engine output, unless you are comparing a failing breaker point ign. to COP.

That's like getting 33 more HP out of a normal 100 HP engine with just an ign upgrade. It just doesn't happen that easy.
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Adionik
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Post: #8   PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

occasional demons wrote:
Adionik wrote:

But wouldn't there be SOME gains from swapping over?

Chrysler reports 30% more power over conventional plugs.. bandhead


The benefit comes with the proper coil driver. When they are fired individually they have more dwell time. Firing them like the conventional wasted spark set up, really gives them no huge advantage over the normal neon coil, other than no wires needed.

Edit: And is that 30% more sparking power? Because I don't see a 30% gain in engine output, unless you are comparing a failing breaker point ign. to COP.

That's like getting 33 more HP out of a normal 100 HP engine with just an ign upgrade. It just doesn't happen that easy.


Well, when I was researching it that's what I came up with.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/copign.htm

Seems to just be a general article on the subject.

Quote:
Chrysler says its COP ignition system on its LHS and 300M engines delivers 28% more spark energy than earlier ignition systems. This improves combustion and reduces the risk of misfire with lean fuel mixtures (lean mixtures require more voltage to ignite reliably).

COP ignition systems are mostly being used on new engine designs, so if you have not seen one yet you soon will. On most, the plugs and coils are located on top of the cylinder head for easy mounting of the coils. A topside location is best because it keeps the coils away from the heat of the exhaust. This is the type of configuration Chrysler uses on its late model 2.7L, 3.2L and 3.5L engines in the Chrysler Intrepid, LHS and 300M models.

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heydockyle
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Post: #9   PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea 30% spark energy not more. So Coil on Plug will have a 30% stronger spark than ours.

No spark is lost in the plug wires.
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racer12306
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Post: #10   PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our Caliber has COP

booty nana
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Post: #11   PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adionik wrote:


Chrysler reports 30% more power over conventional plugs.. bandhead

Also, COP systems still use conventional plugs. There's no "special" plugs. Smile
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Swordfish2Cowboy
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Post: #12   PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weird.
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BlackRoseRacing
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Post: #13   PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you check my progress log I'm pretty sure in there I've got pictures of a cop setup on my magnum. We cannot run these coils on our stock pcm's, It will not fire 2 coils as wired above. I've tried this already and when cylinders 1&4 are fired only cylinder 1 will fire and not cylinder 4.
And the cop setup is nice since you are sending 30-40K volts to one plug VS sharing it with 2 plugs.....
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Post: #14   PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think about it, electricity takes the path with the least resistance, so in a wasted spark set up, the cylinder that is not under compression will be the easiest path to take. A plug that is at near atmospheric pressure will arc far easier than one under compression pressure, and/or boost. One has to wonder how much spark energy is lost to the "dead" cylinder's spark plug, that could be focused on the firing cylinder's spark plug.
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Post: #15   PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG laughing3
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