2001 R/T ... More Power ??

Have a question about how to make horsepower going the all motor route, here's where to ask it.
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nerox
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Post by nerox » Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 am

As tempted as i am with NOS or a turbo, i'm thinking its too risky.

If i was to have a crash the insurance company would certainly inspect the car and notice the non-standard turbo or nitrous leaving me totally screwed.

Thinks like camshaft, valve springs, or other internals they would never check or wouldnt know the difference so i wouldnt have to declare these mods, saving me $$$

things like lowering or CAI make next to no difference to the price so can legally declare these and not have to worry.
:)

adding NOS would probably give my insurance cost a jump of about $1000 ... just coz its NOS

now ... for future reference .... 1gn DOHC pistons in a 2nd gen SOHC bump your compression upto about 10.5:1 right?

so if i was to get some of these, would i just need the piston 'head' or would it require conrods bearings etc etc ...

and according to the haynes manual this needs the engine to be removed from the car .... true or BS?
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Post by occasional demons » Sat May 26, 2012 9:53 am

Removing the engine wouldn't be totally necessary, but might make things easier. The stock pistons and rods are one assy, tho they can be pressed apart. Easier to just use the assy, as long as the parts are in good shape.

10.3:1 C.R.

You would need to pull the head, pull the oil pan and push the piston/rod assy's out the top. The best thing would be to have the cylinders professionally honed, and new rings, but you may get away with just deglazing the bores, and new rings.

If you want to go really cheap, you could remove the rings from the SOHC pistons and put them back in the same bores on the DOHC pistons, in the same positions they came off the SOHC pistons, but that is pushing it. Plus if you are not careful, you may snap a ring removing them.

And if you are good enough, the NO2 lines can be hidden under the IM. Unless they really go through it with a fine tooth comb, they prolly wouldn't catch it with just a quick visual inspection.
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Post by nerox » Sat May 26, 2012 1:05 pm

Damn thats a pain, im not keen on pulling the head again just yet.
i was hoping they could be removed from the underneath :-(

guess ill have to keep thinking about the other options for now ...
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Post by nerox » Sun May 27, 2012 1:15 am

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Post by r/tguy02 » Sun May 27, 2012 6:58 pm

hahn has a reliable turbo kit, however they were dicontinued, so make sure you call that dealer to ensure they actually have it in stock because it is hard to find new stuff anymore.
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Post by occasional demons » Sun May 27, 2012 10:12 pm

At least with ASP, you will still have technical support. Might cost a little more, but you would have someone to walk you through it.
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Post by nerox » Mon May 28, 2012 2:32 am

Kezzo123 wrote:Turbo or no-go - Anything else is disapointing
Noted :-)
r/tguy02 wrote:hahn has a reliable turbo kit, however they were dicontinued, so make sure you call that dealer to ensure they actually have it in stock because it is hard to find new stuff anymore.
Good point, they say made to order so I guess if they are discontinued that means no chance
occasional demons wrote:At least with ASP, you will still have technical support. Might cost a little more, but you would have someone to walk you through it.
Dumb question ... Who is ASP?



The thing with a 'kit' is that most or all of the universal parts I can get here thus saving massively on shipping and import costs.

If there is a way of doing it with a turbo off another car I might even be able to source that locally.

It's things like finding a suitable header that's gonna cause problems
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Post by NyNeon0813 » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:57 pm

What about just going with a srt turbo setup? I've seen a few nice sohc turbo manifolds in the fs thread
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Post by red2k2rt » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:26 am

Danteneon wrote:You are nearing the end of the bolt-on road. It's unfortunate that you want your ice cold A/C and tunes because losing those would help put your car on a diet. But, like Justin said, the next level of power will come from head work, LTH, port matching, etc.
or if he could find the alternator overdrive pulley that i purchased from i think it was adam k. he can use the udp and keep his tunes right were they are.

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Post by nerox » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:07 pm

NyNeon0813 wrote:What about just going with a srt turbo setup? I've seen a few nice sohc turbo manifolds in the fs thread
i've seen a few sohc mani's on here but surely you need a turbo with the right bolt pattern, all turbos aren't the same right ...

or an SRT mani and SRT turbo ?

hmmmm i know nothing about turbos :shock:
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Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:41 pm

Similar to the OP and its NA related so I thought I would post here in the NA section.
Would like to get a little more power out of my 01 R/T. Only have Iceman CAI and Thermal rear section. What would be the next best HP/TQ mod to do that is worth it? LTH?
Also does anyone have a list of the bolt ons and what to expect power wise? Is it even worth it?

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Post by NyNeon0813 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:48 pm

I heard lth is a really good investment! I dont have one but thats soon to come seeing how I have just about every other bolt on. Also consider a comp 400..
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Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:18 pm

Does anyone have numbers? I might need to look up Andrews old progress log. He had like every bolt on possible and made like 140whp on his 01 ACR.
Edit: Found is progress log:
viewtopic.php?t=18902&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60
18whp over stock with all those bolt ons.... Not sure how the power band changed.

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Post by quicksilvr » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:01 pm

If I was going to mod the R/T, I would get a Crane 14, an AF/X Race ecu, a UDP and a long tube header. Maybe a 60mm TB just for the throttle response.


If you don't want to go that far, just a Comp 400 would be a nice mod by itself. Also a UDP....I really liked the gains from the pulley...but you will get headlight dimming unless you find a ODP for the alt as well.
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Post by NyNeon0813 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:55 pm

Thats the problem I've run into with my mpx udp. Lorenzo sells odp's though.

The crane 14 is better than the comp 400?
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Post by occasional demons » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:59 pm

NyNeon0813 wrote:Thats the problem I've run into with my mpx udp. Lorenzo sells odp's though.

The crane 14 is better than the comp 400?
It depends on how much more $ you want to put into it. The 14 will cause o2 issues due to the valve overlap. You will need a fuel controller with a 14, if you want no CEL's.
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Post by trojmn » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:08 am

probably best not to spend (waste?) so much under-driving the power steering pump... if you want to "feel the improvement" slip the belt off for a while. What else is spinning at WOT? A/C certainly isn't engaged. The alternator will always draw as much force (watts) as needed and the stator isn't exactly hefty.

The drive pulley on my ngc is incredibly light. maybe the 00-02's are heavier? At least my old cloud car had a proper heavy cast damper that i removed...
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Post by quicksilvr » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:25 pm

occasional demons wrote:
NyNeon0813 wrote:Thats the problem I've run into with my mpx udp. Lorenzo sells odp's though.

The crane 14 is better than the comp 400?
It depends on how much more $ you want to put into it. The 14 will cause o2 issues due to the valve overlap. You will need a fuel controller with a 14, if you want no CEL's.

Does the 14 still need piggyback fuel control if you use the AFX ecu's? I honestly don't remember, I used my AFX with just a Comp 200.
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Post by occasional demons » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:15 pm

Pretty sure it would. I doubt they had user programmable fuel maps.
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Post by quicksilvr » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:27 am

No, they definitely are not user programmable....but for some reason I was thinking that they would run and idle ok even with the 14, due to the way they ARE set up.
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Post by NyNeon0813 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:51 pm

Figured I could continue this instead of a new thread.. The crane 14, what kind of fuel controller would u need? Would a safc ll or wideband work? Or am I on the wrong page?
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Post by chew* » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:47 pm

SAFC II will work.....

Here's 2 pulls with an SAFC II tuned right to the edge.

First pull is from 3500rpm in first to 70+mph.

Second is a highway pull to speed governor.

IMHO, driver mod is worth more than all mods you can add to your car.

Word of advice, turn audio down.

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Post by NyNeon0813 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:08 pm

Thats with crane 14?
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Post by chew* » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:13 pm

NyNeon0813 wrote:Thats with crane 14?
Thats with stock head and cam stock exhaust manifold and a cat and 89 pump gas since most of the need for premium lies in the cam.

To put it simply the stock PCM r/t or whatever holds back everything......even a simple piggy back tuner can wake this engine up
, that and driver mod.

What a safc II will lack is rev limiter adjustment.....I'd imagine it could do some justice with a comp 400 though.
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Post by occasional demons » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:32 pm

The main issue you need to address with the crane 14, is you need to pull fuel at idle, due to the valve overlap letting raw fuel go out the exhaust, as the intake is still open. The drawback of scavenging with modern fuel injection. The unburned fuel, and the lower manifold vacuum wreak havoc with the stock pcm. The map sensor is telling it it is under load, and to add fuel, and the o2 sensor is telling it, that it is pig rich.

Everything else is icing on the cake.

Now if you came up with a way to delay the fuel injectors at idle, so they didn't put fuel into the cylinder until the exhaust was closed, it might help the pcm sort out the MAP/o2 sensor signals, and run at a better A/F ratio, since it will just be dealing with burned fuel mixtures.

Either way, you will need something piggybacked to the stock system.
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Post by nerox » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:32 pm

on eBay i managed to pickup a used 2gn (non-rt) engine dirt cheap so i figured id be better going down the all-motor route.

IIRC the block, crank, pistons etc are the same for all 2gns?

my plan is to rebuild this 'new' engine with DOHC pistons to bump the compression to 10.3 as previously stated.

i'll be going for parts from Rockauto wherever possible and they have 1gn 'sealed power' (federal mogul) pistons available in standard, 0.5mm, 0.75mm or 1mm oversize.

is bigger better ???

of course ill have to measure the bores of the block and see which is most appropriate, or have it machined to match

the P/N is H853CP or WH853CP... does anyone know if either of these are the correct ones (they both have same spec)
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Post by occasional demons » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:14 am

nerox wrote:
IIRC the block, crank, pistons etc are the same for all 2gns?
Not exactly. 1996 to 2002 are different blocks and cranks than 2003 to 2005. Hopefully you got a 2002 or older.

If you bore to the biggest size, you won't be able to rebuild it again, if it ever gets to that point.
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Post by nerox » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:22 am

Over here the neon was dropped 2002 so everything Is upto 2002 :)

Good point ... Maybe I'll go standard, and hopefully re-use the sohc rings on those pistons :)
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Post by occasional demons » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:39 am

You would probably want fresh rings and a fresh hone to break the cylinder wall glaze.

In theory, yeah, you could re use the rings if they went back into the same bore/position they came out of. But even at that, you have x amount of miles on them.

Plus they may snap removing them, depending on their true condition.

You would need a good check of the bores before committing to stock size replacement pistons. Generally the bores don't wear that bad, but better safe than sorry.
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Post by nerox » Sat May 25, 2013 7:33 pm

Ok so getting round to getting some work done with this idea again.

Talk pistons / head decking to me please people .... :thumbup:

i need to know everything :p
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