General mods questions

Have a question about how to make horsepower going the all motor route, here's where to ask it.
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General mods questions

Post by Ramroid » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:01 am

Ok, here goes. Bought a 02' ATX SXT. Fully loaded from the factory, and it's an oddball little car. Picked her up for 1250$ at an auto auction, and she had a little front end damage. Looks like someone's reese hitch decided to smack her. So the question i'm asking, is it even worth modding an automatic?

The car is strong, and i mean strong, for a bone stock, un-molested automatic. I was surprised when i took her for a drive. I know the basic mods for neons, Mag head swap, CAI, headers, exhaust, grind #10 cam. Just wondering if the ATX can handle the power i plan on trying to extract out of this little 2.0. I don't want to do a MTX swap, mainly because i don't have the time and its a total PITA. So, can the ATX handle it?

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Post by JeffM » Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:28 am

Yeah the ATX can handle it, because in actuality, you won't be putting down huge numbers after those mods. You'll definitely wake the car up though. Depending on the mileage, I'd suggest upgrading the cooler for the trans, since heat is the main killer of the ATX.
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Post by occasional demons » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:24 am

I would not use a "10" with a mag head, let alone a regular head. It isn't much bigger than stock. A 12 or a 400 will give you a better smile.


If you use a cooler with the 41te, I recommend a thermostat like Perma Cool sells. The 41 and 40te use temperature as part of the shift logic. If it is too cool, it will shift funny.
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Post by Ramroid » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:24 pm

JeffM wrote:Yeah the ATX can handle it, because in actuality, you won't be putting down huge numbers after those mods. You'll definitely wake the car up though. Depending on the mileage, I'd suggest upgrading the cooler for the trans, since heat is the main killer of the ATX.
Well, i wasn't planning on huge numbers..lol. Just to wake her up a little more. I have an 04' SY RT thats pretty much weak as water at this point. I like the 02' alot better, it seems more perky if that makes sense? lol. I haven't really had time to go through the engine on the 02' and see what is all there, i do know it was a custom order for the previous owner's daughter as a graduation present and the guy literally got everything available for the car. It runs better than my friends 02' RT. I let him take it for a spin and he came back mad because it pulls harder than his car..ha. It's hard to explain, but its impressive power-wise for a stock neon. I just have a random question tho. was the RT engine(or components for that matter) available on the SXT if it were a special order? Im going to run the VIN later and see, just wondering if that was even a possibility.

My dad was the one who found it for me, and he swears up and down something is different about this one.
I would not use a "10" with a mag head, let alone a regular head. It isn't much bigger than stock. A 12 or a 400 will give you a better smile.


If you use a cooler with the 41te, I recommend a thermostat like Perma Cool sells. The 41 and 40te use temperature as part of the shift logic. If it is too cool, it will shift funny.
Completely forgot about a trans cooler. I switched over from the Beemer world to neons, more bang for your buck.

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Post by r/tguy02 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:38 pm

nope, (r/t) magnum optioned engine and trans were only available on the r/t.
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Post by stdlystdmufn » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:27 pm

I had a big ported mag head, 400 cam, shorty header back exhaust, AMM IM (and at one point a mag IM), UDP, no trans cooler and cracked the head in 3 places before the trans had any issues. I even had MS running it for a short time and the 40te ran like a champ. If you do add a cooler then plus 1 to the thermostat control
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Post by jckevns » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:14 pm

Im running 18 lbs of boost on my atx, with a trans cooler ofcourse. Its seen 30lbs before, no issues
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Post by Ramroid » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:36 am

jckevns wrote:Im running 18 lbs of boost on my atx, with a trans cooler ofcourse. Its seen 30lbs before, no issues
Well then, this covers power issues. lol
nope, (r/t) magnum optioned engine and trans were only available on the r/t.
Well, this is quite the conundrum then. I popped the hood for the first time since i bought her, saw an aluminum intake staring right at me. Maybe the previous owner already did some swapping? Thats what's confusing me. Aluminum intake, but stock airbox. Most people that do intake swaps shove a CAI in there as well. This car is confusing..lol

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Post by r/tguy02 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:46 am

yep someone swapped it then, wonder how much of the mag swap they actually did then :-k
Ramroid wrote:
jckevns wrote:Im running 18 lbs of boost on my atx, with a trans cooler ofcourse. Its seen 30lbs before, no issues
Well then, this covers power issues. lol
this isnt the best comparison considering they're two different transmissions
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[02 R/T sold][00 Highline sold][04 r/t scrapped][95 NYG Sport coupe][01 r/t DD]
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Post by occasional demons » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:37 am

True, unless he swapped a 41te into his '01, it is the 31th.

Considering the 31th's were mated to boosted 2.2's from the factory, it isn't really apples to apples. While they weren't necessarily as powerful as some of today's N/A cars, the power did come on more suddenly, than waiting for rpm's to build.
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Post by jckevns » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:47 pm

For some reason I thought the 02s had the 3 speed as well
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Post by Ramroid » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:55 pm

r/tguy02 wrote:yep someone swapped it then, wonder how much of the mag swap they actually did then :-k
No clue, haven't had the time to actually go through much since i got her. These 60 hour work weeks are killing me. lol. I do know she has the aluminum intake, and runs like a stabbed rat. Another thing thats weird, the car doesn't shift like i expected. Not a smooth transition when im on the throttle, it actually shifts hard and i even chirped the tires today on my lunch break..lol. Freaked me out, it was unexpected.

Anyone know the part #'s for the magnum head? ill check it out next time i have some time.

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Post by occasional demons » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:05 pm

Since you really can't see behind the timing cover, look at the exhaust side of the head. Then compare that to Magnum exhaust port pics on here. The shape around the top of the ports is different between the standard and Magnum heads.

Image

The standard head does not have the humps above the ports, it is flat across the top.

It may also have a ported version of either head. And/or possible DOHC piston swap.

It may also have the torque management wire cut too, hence the decent power when shifting. That may be detrimental the life of the ATX...

Image

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE C2 (2.0L) - BLACK 40 WAY
CAV...CIRCUIT...................FUNCTION

63......T10 18YL/DG............(EATX) TORQUE MANAGEMENT REQUEST SENSE

76......T41 18BR/YL.............(EATX) TRS T41 SENSE *MAY BE BK/WT ON PT
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Post by Ramroid » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:47 pm

occasional demons wrote:Since you really can't see behind the timing cover, look at the exhaust side of the head. Then compare that to Magnum exhaust port pics on here. The shape around the top of the ports is different between the standard and Magnum heads.

Image

The standard head does not have the humps above the ports, it is flat across the top.

It may also have a ported version of either head. And/or possible DOHC piston swap.

It may also have the torque management wire cut too, hence the decent power when shifting. That may be detrimental the life of the ATX...

Image

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE C2 (2.0L) - BLACK 40 WAY
CAV...CIRCUIT...................FUNCTION

63......T10 18YL/DG............(EATX) TORQUE MANAGEMENT REQUEST SENSE

76......T41 18BR/YL.............(EATX) TRS T41 SENSE *MAY BE BK/WT ON PT
i'll ret to check this all out on my lunch break tomorrow. I love this car, the ride quality is a gigantic stepdown from my previous car, but its more fun(03' bmw m3). Thanks for the info! Also, is there anyway to check the Vin for the option on my car? ive found several decoders, but they aren't pointing towards anything.

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Post by occasional demons » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:06 pm

The eighth digit on your car will be "C", since it is not an R/T or an ACR. The eight digit for a Magnum engine is "F". That would be the only way to tell from the VIN.

Email customerassist@chrysler.com with your VIN. They will send you a breakdown of the build sheet.

This is an example of what you get back:
occasional demons wrote:Dear William:

Thank you for contacting the Dodge Customer Assistance Center in regards
to your 1999 Dodge Neon.

We are pleased to provide vehicle build information per your request.

According to our records, your vehicle was equipped from the factory
with the following:

Sales Code Description
*L7 Cloth Low-Back Bucket Seats
-AZ Agate
AJK Convenience Group
AJPP Power Convenience Group
ALF Sun and Wheel Value Group
APAS Monotone Paint
BA7S 250 Amp Alternator
BCUS 450 Amp Maintenance Free Battery
BRAS Power Front Disc/Rear Drum Brakes
BTAP All Vehicles w/o ABS Brakes
CGDS Front Height Adjust Shoulder Belts
CGWS Next Generation Front Air Bags**
CKAS Carpets - Floor and Cargo Area
CKPS Trunk Dress-Up
CLES Front & Rear Floor Mats
CSRP Passenger Assist Handles
CUFS Full Length Floor Console
DBBC All Manual Transmissions
DD4 5-Speed Perf. Manual Transmission
DLTP 2.8 Overall Top Gear Ratio
EAAC All Engines

ECC 2.0L I4 DOHC 16V SMPI Engine
GACS Tinted Glass Windows
GBBS Tinted Windshield Glass
GFAS Rear Window Defroster
GNAS Rear View Day/Night Mirror
GNCP Sun Visors w/Illum Vanity Mirrors
GRKP Left Power Mirror
GSKP Right Power Mirror
GTKP Power Mirrors
GVBC All Vehicles W/Power Mirrors
GWAP Power Sunroof
HAAP Air Conditioning
HGDS Deluxe Insulation Group
JAAS Instrument Panel
JCBS 120 MPH Primary Speedometer
JFHP Tachometer
JHAS Var Intermittent Windshield Wipers
JJAS Cigar Lighter
JJFS Single Low Note Horn
JKES Remote Trunklid Release
JPAP Power Windows
JPBP Power Locks
KSAS STRIPE/BADGE/MOLDING/COLOR
K3WS STRIPE/BADGE/MOLDING/COLOR
LDCS Trunk Lamp
LMAS Halogen Headlamps
LNJP Fog Lamps
MDA Front License Plate Bracket
MGBP Hood Power Bulge
MUDS Dodge I.D. Badge
MVJP Sport Badge
MVPS Dodge Badge
MV3S Dodge Dart Badging
MXDP Trunklid Spoiler
NAE California Emissions
NBKS EVAP Control System
NFMS 12.5 Gallon Fuel Tank
NHMP Speed Control
PW7 Bright White Clear Coat
QW7S Bright White Clear Coat
RAAC All Radio Equipped Vehicles
RBSP AM/FM Cass Radio w/Changer Control
RCGP 6 Speakers
SBAS Power Rack and Pinion Steering
SCAS Steering Wheel
SDCS Touring Suspension
SHAP Front Stabilizer Bar
SUAP Tilt Steering Column
TAAC All Tires
TBCS Compact Spare Tire
TJYS P185/65R14 BSW AS Touring Tires
WBBS 14X5.5 Black Wheels
W4WP 14" White Wheel Covers
XFAS -35F Protection Anti-Freeze
YAAS Build To U.S. Mkt. Specifications

Thanks again for your email.

Sincerely,

Jennifer

Customer Service Representative
Dodge Customer Assistance Center
ECB Would be the regular SOHC 2.0
ECH would be the H.O. Magnum 2.0
ECC was only installed in Export PT Cruisers after the 1999 model year.
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Post by NickKo » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:32 pm

occasional demons wrote:
It may also have the torque management wire cut too, hence the decent power when shifting.
That may be detrimental the life of the ATX...

Image

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE C2 (2.0L) - BLACK 40 WAY
CAV...CIRCUIT...................FUNCTION

63......T10 18YL/DG............(EATX) TORQUE MANAGEMENT REQUEST SENSE

76......T41 18BR/YL.............(EATX) TRS T41 SENSE *MAY BE BK/WT ON PT
WAY Cool !! :D Thanks for posting this, Bill. :D

Maybe someday there will be a 4-speed ATX Neon in my future, after all !! :D :lol:


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-2000 Ply.LX w/MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 exh.; 60mm T/B
-2001 ATX w/Syked PCM + Magnum header
-2001 ACR w/SRT T/B bored out to 55mm

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Post by occasional demons » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:50 am

There is actually a sticky on that, but the links to the forums are dead.

That pin out is courtesy of Danteneon. :thumbup:
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Post by Ramroid » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:16 pm

occasional demons wrote:The eighth digit on your car will be "C", since it is not an R/T or an ACR. The eight digit for a Magnum engine is "F". That would be the only way to tell from the VIN.

Email customerassist@chrysler.com with your VIN. They will send you a breakdown of the build sheet.

This is an example of what you get back:
occasional demons wrote:Dear William:

Thank you for contacting the Dodge Customer Assistance Center in regards
to your 1999 Dodge Neon.

We are pleased to provide vehicle build information per your request.

According to our records, your vehicle was equipped from the factory
with the following:

Sales Code Description
*L7 Cloth Low-Back Bucket Seats
-AZ Agate
AJK Convenience Group
AJPP Power Convenience Group
ALF Sun and Wheel Value Group
APAS Monotone Paint
BA7S 250 Amp Alternator
BCUS 450 Amp Maintenance Free Battery
BRAS Power Front Disc/Rear Drum Brakes
BTAP All Vehicles w/o ABS Brakes
CGDS Front Height Adjust Shoulder Belts
CGWS Next Generation Front Air Bags**
CKAS Carpets - Floor and Cargo Area
CKPS Trunk Dress-Up
CLES Front & Rear Floor Mats
CSRP Passenger Assist Handles
CUFS Full Length Floor Console
DBBC All Manual Transmissions
DD4 5-Speed Perf. Manual Transmission
DLTP 2.8 Overall Top Gear Ratio
EAAC All Engines

ECC 2.0L I4 DOHC 16V SMPI Engine
GACS Tinted Glass Windows
GBBS Tinted Windshield Glass
GFAS Rear Window Defroster
GNAS Rear View Day/Night Mirror
GNCP Sun Visors w/Illum Vanity Mirrors
GRKP Left Power Mirror
GSKP Right Power Mirror
GTKP Power Mirrors
GVBC All Vehicles W/Power Mirrors
GWAP Power Sunroof
HAAP Air Conditioning
HGDS Deluxe Insulation Group
JAAS Instrument Panel
JCBS 120 MPH Primary Speedometer
JFHP Tachometer
JHAS Var Intermittent Windshield Wipers
JJAS Cigar Lighter
JJFS Single Low Note Horn
JKES Remote Trunklid Release
JPAP Power Windows
JPBP Power Locks
KSAS STRIPE/BADGE/MOLDING/COLOR
K3WS STRIPE/BADGE/MOLDING/COLOR
LDCS Trunk Lamp
LMAS Halogen Headlamps
LNJP Fog Lamps
MDA Front License Plate Bracket
MGBP Hood Power Bulge
MUDS Dodge I.D. Badge
MVJP Sport Badge
MVPS Dodge Badge
MV3S Dodge Dart Badging
MXDP Trunklid Spoiler
NAE California Emissions
NBKS EVAP Control System
NFMS 12.5 Gallon Fuel Tank
NHMP Speed Control
PW7 Bright White Clear Coat
QW7S Bright White Clear Coat
RAAC All Radio Equipped Vehicles
RBSP AM/FM Cass Radio w/Changer Control
RCGP 6 Speakers
SBAS Power Rack and Pinion Steering
SCAS Steering Wheel
SDCS Touring Suspension
SHAP Front Stabilizer Bar
SUAP Tilt Steering Column
TAAC All Tires
TBCS Compact Spare Tire
TJYS P185/65R14 BSW AS Touring Tires
WBBS 14X5.5 Black Wheels
W4WP 14" White Wheel Covers
XFAS -35F Protection Anti-Freeze
YAAS Build To U.S. Mkt. Specifications

Thanks again for your email.

Sincerely,

Jennifer

Customer Service Representative
Dodge Customer Assistance Center
ECB Would be the regular SOHC 2.0
ECH would be the H.O. Magnum 2.0
ECC was only installed in Export PT Cruisers after the 1999 model year.
Popped the hood. Its a magnum swap..lol. Its an SXT fromt he factory, but it does have the magnum head. I pulled off the exhaust manifold to make sure, looks ported and polished as well. Someone spent some time here..lol

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Post by blueneo03 » Thu May 09, 2013 10:40 am

Pics or it didnt happen
Image

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Post by akirony » Thu May 09, 2013 6:59 pm

blueneo03 wrote:Pics or it didnt happen
Hahaha
Have car-have car problems. Have srt4-have speed problems
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Post by PeterbiltDriver » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:37 am

Just have a quick question on the pics of the harness. Does anyone know if that is the same on an 04 sxt???

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Post by occasional demons » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:17 pm

No, the 2003 to 2005 PCM's have 4 connectors, vs the two that the older ones use.

Maybe start a new thread in the audio electrical, or engine section, with what you need, and possibly someone might post a pin out.
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Post by timk225 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:46 am

You can see the "R/T" cast into the side of the Magnum head thermostat housing with everything installed in the car. It's easiest to see with a flashlight while it's dark outside. There's only about an 1/8" gap between the head and the black plastic timing belt cover, but that's enough to see that glorious R/T on the side of the head!

Pry the timing cover over a little bit with a screwdriver if needed.

I'm about to do my 100 K mile maintenance on my 5 SXT ATX. New water pump, tensioner, timing belt, and a Stage 1 (more or less) ported and polished Magnum head with a Crane 12 cam and springs!

Got to change the transmission cooler too.

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Post by sidepipe87 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:02 pm

timk225 wrote:You can see the "R/T" cast into the side of the Magnum head thermostat housing with everything installed in the car. It's easiest to see with a flashlight while it's dark outside. There's only about an 1/8" gap between the head and the black plastic timing belt cover, but that's enough to see that glorious R/T on the side of the head!

Pry the timing cover over a little bit with a screwdriver if needed.
He claims he already checked and it is a mag head...
Ramroid wrote: Popped the hood. Its a magnum swap..lol. Its an SXT fromt he factory, but it does have the magnum head. I pulled off the exhaust manifold to make sure, looks ported and polished as well. Someone spent some time here..lol

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Post by FAC3L3SS » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:24 pm

sidepipe87 wrote:
timk225 wrote:You can see the "R/T" cast into the side of the Magnum head thermostat housing with everything installed in the car. It's easiest to see with a flashlight while it's dark outside. There's only about an 1/8" gap between the head and the black plastic timing belt cover, but that's enough to see that glorious R/T on the side of the head!

Pry the timing cover over a little bit with a screwdriver if needed.
He claims he already checked and it is a mag head...
Ramroid wrote:
Popped the hood. Its a magnum swap..lol. Its an SXT fromt he factory, but it does have the magnum head. I pulled off the exhaust manifold to make sure, looks ported and polished as well. Someone spent some time here..lol
Because his evidence is overwhelming that it's a true mag swap :roll:

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Post by occasional demons » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:32 pm

Well it isn't like he's trying to sell it, so I guess it isn't really relevant. :lol:
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Post by FAC3L3SS » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:51 pm

True, Bill, but it helps us in diagnosing or helping what he wants. Half-ass answers net half-ass results.
el. oh. el.

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Post by timk225 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:39 am

Ramroid - get this thing on the dragstrip and give us a complete report. Racing weight with you in it, time, speed, and also the 60 foot and times and speeds at all increments going down the track, what rpms did the ATX shift at, etc.

On the driver's side end of the camshaft, if it isn't a stock factory cam, the grind will be etched by hand into the outer ring of metal outside the magnet. It'll probably be tough to read, but see what numbers and letters are there if any and tell us.

When I got my Crane 12 cam, I saw the code for it in the end of the cam, but it was hard to read even knowing which cam it was and what the letters and numbers were.

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Post by FlexdXJ » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:53 am

occasional demons wrote:It may also have the torque management wire cut too, hence the decent power when shifting. That may be detrimental the life of the ATX...

Image

POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE C2 (2.0L) - BLACK 40 WAY
CAV...CIRCUIT...................FUNCTION

63......T10 18YL/DG............(EATX) TORQUE MANAGEMENT REQUEST SENSE

76......T41 18BR/YL.............(EATX) TRS T41 SENSE *MAY BE BK/WT ON PT
So basically if one were to wire a switch into the wire on pin 63 they could have normal shifting for DD commuting and firm shifts for AutoX????? This is great news, my car is retarded coming out of corners and needs MOAR POWAHH!!! :D I've been looking for this info since Sunday! I think this info needs to be added to the sticky.
I still hate Neons...

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Post by occasional demons » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:12 pm

FlexdXJ wrote:[I think this info needs to be added to the sticky.

It is done, tho you could have quoted and copied/pasted it also. :lol:
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