Keys and SKIM

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lisad
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Keys and SKIM

Post by lisad » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:25 pm

2003 Neon SE -- no power anything, no key fob. The car came with 2 gray keys. After reading in this forum and others, I read about the SKIM. While digging around in the car I found that someone had wired a push button starter inside (it was tucked underneath a panel. The starter turns over the engine but it doesn't start, even with the gray ignition key inserted.

I'm not sure why that was done, but the SKIM doesn't even fit nicely in the steering column and is not screwed in or anything, just a plastic ring loosely sits over the ignition cylinder. I suspect at some point, someone was using the push button starter with no SKIM and then added the SKIM later, withe the keys, I assume. I don't care about the push button start but was wondering -- if I disconnected the SKIM, could we just make keys for the car anywhere and not bother with the coded keys? Seems to be too expensive to bother with. The person wired the push button starter to the starter and then there is a wire that looks like it goes near the injectors somewhere.

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jonnymopar
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Re: Keys and SKIM

Post by jonnymopar » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:16 pm

Unfortunately simply eliminating the SKIM isn't possible since the PCM looks for it on start-up.

Hopefully someone can chime in and confirm this, but I believe if you were experiencing a SKIM-related fault, the car would actually start momentarily, then shut itself off after a few seconds. It sounds like your car doesn't even get to that point. It's highly unlikely that someone would have added the SKIM since it's far more trouble than it's worth, but with a near decade-and-a-half-old car, you truly never know.

The whole thing sounds fishy. Does turning the key to Start do anything? When you try to start it with the pushbutton, is the key turned to the On position so everything else is getting power? As for the wire connecting near the injectors, could you post up a photo?

By the way, welcome to 2GN!
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occasional demons
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Re: Keys and SKIM

Post by occasional demons » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:20 pm

You can ask Ryan if he can turn off the SKIM in your PCM. You would have to ship it to him if he can.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=68676

Otherwise it can be shipped to Syked Tuning and Kevin can turn off the SKIM feature.

https://www.facebook.com/sykedecutuning/

The moduke around the key must be unplugged/removed from the car before installing the PCM after this has been done. Otherwise it will become a SKIM PCM again as soon as it sees the module. Any PCM 2000 and up will become SKIM if it sees the module. This sucks if you don't have the 4 digit code and matching VIN. You either pay and wait to get it cleared, or have a nice paperweight.
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Re: Keys and SKIM

Post by Diablo0 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:39 pm

Is Flight Systems still around that used to do this to the SRT Stage computers?
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lisad
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Re: Keys and SKIM

Post by lisad » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:49 pm

I'm not experiencing any faults at all. I didn't stick the key in and turn it to On, I just stuck it in and tried the weird push button start thing. I tried the push button when I didn't know what it was and the engine tried to start but didn't turn over. Then I read in one of the forums that if you have a grey key, the key needs to be near the ignition so the SKIM knows a valid key is there, should you want to use a push button start. I tried to use the push button with the key in the ignition but it still didn't start.

Back in 2014, the car was in a front accident and had to be towed. I see that on the CarFax but there is absolutely no indication of body work or anything else done after that.

Is it true that if there is a gray key that there has to be a working SKIM? Heck I didn't even check to see if it is hooked up! It is there in the steering column though. I followed the wires from the push start, like I said, and one is hooked into the starter and another somewhere else, maybe a ground? The connection is horrible and not even covered. I want to disconnect it completely.

The ignition key works fine and the car starts fine with the key. I am just wondering why someone put in the push button start if it doesn't start the car, but also if we're stuck having to go to dealer to get a new ignition key made. The poor car was pretty beat up but she's running a lot better now since I've been tinkering.

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Re: Keys and SKIM

Post by occasional demons » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:03 pm

lisad wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:49 pm
Is it true that if there is a gray key that there has to be a working SKIM?

The ignition key works fine and the car starts fine with the key. I am just wondering why someone put in the push button start if it doesn't start the car, but also if we're stuck having to go to dealer to get a new ignition key made.
Being it is a 2003, SKIM was a standard feature, and not an option like 2000 to 2002. It has SKIM.

The push button probably only works the starter, and unless the key is turned to RUN, the engine won't fire. You didn't specify if the key was only in the ignition, or if it was keyed on to run.

If you have two keys, you can program your own third key. (There should be a "How To" somewhere on here) Otherwise it is a trip to a dealer, or WalMart/other locksmith that has the equipment to program a key.
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Re: Keys and SKIM

Post by lisad » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:36 pm

The key was only IN the ignition when I tried the push button. I didn't try it with the key turned to run. Why would someone put a push button starter in if they have a key?

I only have 1 ignition and 1 door/trunk.

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Re: Keys and SKIM

Post by occasional demons » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:26 pm

lisad wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:36 pm
The key was only IN the ignition when I tried the push button. I didn't try it with the key turned to run. Why would someone put a push button starter in if they have a key?
Because money/effort.

You can't just use a simple momentary on switch to engage and release the starter, and also turn on the power to the PCM/ignition. And also function to turn it all off. You'll need a latching relay to keep the ignition on, and a seperate switch to turn the latching relay off to shut it down. Thus the push button to crank it, and the key to power the PCM, and shut it off.

There was a brief time when push button start was the in thing. To make it like some of the factory installed push button systems exceeds the amount most neon owners will spend.

Personally, I am like you, I didn't see the point, when turning the key one more notch works just fine. I get that it might be cool, and to each their own.

But if it happened that the ignition switch failed in a way that it worked, except for engaging the starter relay, and rigging up a push button was cheaper/easier, I might go that route, since it would then become a matter of function.

Aftermarket, or JY is probably the only option for a replacement switch now. FCA has been discontinuing Neon parts left and right.
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Re: Keys and SKIM

Post by BlackRoseRacing » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:22 am

How good are you at testing electrical?
I would have someone near the ASD relay touching it and have someone turn the key on. Feel if the relay is kicking.....
Test the power at the coil also when someone turns the key on, you should have a constant 12v power at one of the wires....
If the above simple test fail, then it's back to figuring out the skim issue.
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Re: Keys and SKIM

Post by occasional demons » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:08 pm

My impression is that everything works normally if the key is used to turn on and crank the engine.
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Re: Keys and SKIM

Post by lisad » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:43 am

Correct, everything works fine with ignition key. That was never my issue. I was just wondering why there is a push button start that doesn't start the car, and more importantly, how to get another ignition key made with no Pin. I thought maybe someone at some point only had a door key and used the push button start because of that, but from what you are saying, the ignition key is coded and with the SKIM, no way someone could use a push button start without the coded ignition key.

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