What rout should i go?

neweywhat · Post by **neweywhat** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:27 pm

Here is the problem, I have a 05 SXT and plan on throwing on the magnum head for next years project. Now I know I need engine management when I do this. Well I have the APEXi SAFC-NEO already. That’s half the headache. I was considering on getting the MS. From what little research I have done so far I feel like the MS is more like a MEGA PAIN IN my @$$! Well until I get it working. I also find that if I use it as a piggy back to the stock PCM it would only control the A/F Ratio and the Ignition system. So now to the actual question should I just go with a full MSD ignition system or the MS?

turbodudey · Post by **turbodudey** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:58 pm

if I use it as a piggy back to the stock PCM it would only control the A/F Ratio and the Ignition system

MS is a standalone system, not a piggyback. You can us MS to take control of your engine in stages, i.e. run fuel only while the stock PCM controls spark, and then hook up spark at a later date. It's still a standalone system though. With MS you have complete control over every engine parameter.

I don't have any personal experience with the SAFC, but what I've read is that it kinda sucks. (I am partial toward the MS though

)

MS = FTW

SAFC = FTL

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:05 pm

From the rumors I here MS is the way to go for now with an NGC car....

Post by **jonnymopar** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:12 pm

Wouldn't a stock 03 R/T computer work in there??

eVilcreations · Post by **eVilcreations** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:16 pm

If you are looking to control EVERYTHING with one system MegaSquirt is for sure the way to go.

If you are looking at doing fuel control and then adding spark control later, you might consider the TurboXS DTEC Fuel Controller instead of an SAFC. I had an SAFC, and got rid of it for various reasons, and now have complete control of my Fuel system via the DTEC FC.

Spark can be added later with the MSD DIS-2 if you go the DTEC route.

Josh

neweywhat · Post by **neweywhat** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:03 pm

Ok first yes MS is a stand alone but can also be used as a piggy back system. What do you think it would be doing i you still used the stock pcm? But is has the option to ditch the stock PCM in all witch is a nice thing about it.

Now I already have the SAFC witch is why im partial on getting the MS. See if I get the MS I would only use it for A/F and spark. So why get two things that deal with A/F?

The stock 03 R/T? Hmm I have no clue but I don’t see why it wouldn’t. When I buy my head, I’m getting it off a 00-02. That might have something to do with it. Who knows? I will look into it but it still wouldn’t help me in the long run since I want control over A/F and spark. They need to just find a way to flash the damn PCM and play with it that way!

Now what didn’t the SAFC do that the Turbo XS DTEC Fuel Controller did do? i have yet to put my SAFC in since im in Iraq, it makes it a little harder to work on my car. but leaves me plenty of time to do research!

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:11 pm

What else are you doing to the engine? If you're just changing the head the stock PCM will be more than fine, or you can upgrade to the R/T pcm or AF/X or something if you want to run higher octane/more rev's.

Mopar00Neon · Post by **Mopar00Neon** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:17 pm

^^what he said. Just a head swap like that will not require any changes in engine managment.

And there were no magnum cars in '00. But the magnum heads are all the same. being a 01-02 will not cause any issues at all on an 03+. Non-magnum heads are the same from 00-05 as well.

neweywhat · Post by **neweywhat** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:23 pm

Well next winter I am planning on the whole thing new head P+P, Crain #12, with a P+P intake manifold, and a bulldog LT. I want to have the engine management ready when it comes time to bolt everything on.

This winter I dealt with mainly the simple things like coilovers, cat back exhaust, UDP, and few other things that don’t really matter since im changing the head any way.

If you guys have any suggestions as what else I should do I will try to fit them into my budget also.

Jerome Adams · Post by **Jerome Adams** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:37 pm

Even with those mods the stock PCM will be fine. THe only problem is that the rev limit is 6750 and a Crane 14 could use another 1000 rpm to take full advantage of the extra lift and duration.

It will be a LOT cheaper and easier if you do all the head stuff at the same time. Get the mag head, cam, valve springs, retainers (if you feel you need them), cam gear, and put it all in at the same time. Digging into the head is not an easy chore and is expensive if you have to pay somebody to do it, so it is best to do it all at once. I think it is a good idea to do the head stuff first and then add the bolts ons. Everybody else does it the other way and they don't see a lot of results from the bolt ons and get discouraged. Set up a budget and a plan as to where you want your car to be and collect parts and put them on in groups.

neweywhat · Post by **neweywhat** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:14 pm

Well the whole idea that you just said has been my plan. I have been planning on this for a few months now. See I am looking to be deployed back here to Iraq in Aug of 07 (sucks!!) and then I will at that point, buy everything I need. Get home it (then will be winter) and have all the P+P work done, put everything together, and then slap it on the car. So it should all go in at the same time. As far as me really needing engine management, well it’s more like want it but who doesn’t? I think the biggest thing is…. I am just scared to go standalone. I want to but I don’t know what all it takes other than money of course. What doesn’t? I can’t seem to even get a good lay without forking out some dough. Ok that was a lie but no really it’s true. Just kidding, and im done now. so what all do I have to have to get the MS in? I would hate to start it and then need my car!! I have the laptop so I don’t really care about that. But do I have the know how on what I need to set the MS for? No!! I have no clue about that kind of stuff. It seems like a whole other world to me. And hooking it up well that’s just crazy talk now. Lol ok now that im finished sounding like a confused 13 year old boy who just learned about sex for the first time in school. What all is possible and recommended with the MS? Also how complex is the software and whole system?

Jerome Adams · Post by **Jerome Adams** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:52 pm

I would do all the head work like I said, especially if you have the $$ to do it all at once. If you get a mag head, it might not be cost effective to P&P it, as they flow real well the way they are designed...others might have different opinions.

After the head stuff, I would go with the standard bolt ons to help the engine breathe better, after all you won't be able to take advantage of all that expensive head work without more air flowing thru the intake side (CAI, 60mm TB, Mag intake) and the exhaust side (header, high flow cat, 2.5 piping, etc). THEN...you can consider something like MS. Doing MS sooner will not improve performance much if any. Mods work together and need to be kept in somewhat of a balance, if you actually want to see results. Plus holding off on MS will give you plenty of time to do some research and will also allow them to work some of the kinks out of MS for the NGC cars.

EDIT>>>I got correected on neons.org Apparently you do need fuel management to run a Crane 14. I wouldn't think it is necessary for a 12...but I didn't think it was needed for a 14 either

What branch you in? I am USAF...

neweywhat · Post by **neweywhat** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:25 pm

I’m in the Air Force too. But as of now I do have fuel management, I have the neo. i have all the bolt on’s for my normal sohc. I just need to change CAI, Intake Manifold, and Header. Also I would need to throw in the cam gear too. I am running a 2.5" cat back with a cat delete pipe. I put a magna flow muffler (RESIGNATOR) in place of the cat. I won’t have the funding until I am deployed again next year. Should be some time in Aug though. Sucks I am only getting about 7 months home before I have to come back to this hole but hey I enjoy the pay. Keeps my car sexy!

Jerome Adams · Post by **Jerome Adams** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:15 pm

I have been fortunate as I am doing a controlled tour as an instructor and we still deploy it is just not as often as those out in the career field.

Be safe and give em hell. Good luck with your ride. I was hoping to use tax returns for a new toy or 2 but I NEED tires so that is my "fun" money...rest goes to bills

2GN.ORG

What rout should i go?

Mega Squirt vs. MSD W/SAFC-NEO

What rout should i go?