Spark Plugs again

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latief
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Spark Plugs again

Post by latief » Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:58 am

I'm in the process of changing wires, coil, and plugs as you might see in my other thread overhere.......

I know the topic of spark plugs has been beaten to death over here.... STAY AWAY from Bosch Platnium Plugs specially (+2) is the common advice over here....

Yesterday i was at Autozone shopping for plugs, the salesman insisted that he used to work at a dodge dealership, and he told me that they never heard that Platnium plugs are not good with neons, he told me that this is a Japanese engine (which is true i guess since it is a mitsubishi 420 in our cars), and he told me that these engines should work fine with bosch platinums since japanese cars never use Champions....anyhow, he wanted the scientific explanation for why these should not work, and i told them that they could cause misfires down the road due to the electronics design on our cars.... :oops: i guess that is what i understood......of course he started trying to discredit forums, and forum knowledge, but i know he was just trying to sell me stuff, and i trust these forums a hundered times more than any salesman :wink:


any how, i resisted buying iridium plugs since i could not justify the $10 per plug cost :( , i did go with Bosch plugs, but i went with the new Super copper plug they have, they just came out i was told.... so we'll see how it works. at $2.5 dollars a plug, that was not too bad.....

so can someone give me the EXACT Scientific Reason why Platnium Plugs are not good with neons......?

Thanks,

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Post by LCPLPunk » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:34 am

no idea honestly, but i've never had a problem with my NGKs.. :P
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Post by Srt4Me03 » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:45 am

From my understanding ... and take this with a grain of salt. First platinum isnt a great conducter, as regular ol copper is. Plus copper is more resistant to higher heat then platinum. Iridium is another good choice but much more expensive and i dont see it being worth it. I still use good ol NGK 4306's for my neon and they work fine . Hope this helps.
Last edited by Srt4Me03 on Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by gilly02le » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:45 am

look up the conducting properties of copper versus platinum, Copper conducts much better.. the only thing better then copper is pure silver.. and i doubt you'll see too many silver tipped plugs around. And thus why ppl say stick with the champions.. which ARE designed for our engines, Which ARE NOT japanese engines.. look on your door jam, your car is built in an American production plant.

2gn neons engines are referred to as the ECB. not the 420a, that would be a non turbo talon engine, and has the exhaust off the front of the engine. which no neon has.
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latief
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Post by latief » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:55 am

yes, i know about the neon engines being american made, i thought the design was similar, or identical to the mitsubishi engine....

any how, if copper is a better conductor, why are platinum plugs marketed as the premiuim / better ones?

thanks for the responses guys......

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Post by Nick Drake » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:59 am

All I know is that Platinum lasts longer. I still won't use them though, I like my stock champs just fine.
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Post by jonnymopar » Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:27 pm

For cars that can use them, they are the premium ones. Platinum lasts alot longer than the copper. This is why it's advertised like it is. Notice how they don't say that it's not as good of an electrical conductor as copper. However, sometimes platinum's are used for practicality as well. The first example that comes to my mind is the newer Mitsubishi 3.0L 24V motor. I haven't taken a real close look at it, but it seriously looks like you'd have to take the intake plenum off just to change the back 3 plugs! Solution: 100,000-mile plugs.

Personally, I went with the Iridiums. They were $7.50 a piece and with the way I pack mileage on my car, the Iridiums will end up costing me the same amount as a bunch of copper sets. Others' situations vary of course.
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Post by kc2005ptgt » Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:38 pm

I thought our engines were the A588 ??

Anyway, I would personally stick with champion plugs - they are cheap, work great with our cars, and if you wanted to you can replace them every oil change like I do (5-6k miles :D)
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Post by racer12306 » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:26 pm

i believe A588 is a transmission.

all that really matters is platnums dont work copper does, stick to copper.

i use NGK V-Power, $1.78 each and they last 30000 miles.
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Why Not Platinum

Post by ewetho » Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:10 pm

The problem is not platinum itself but the ignition system. DIS (waste spark ignition system) is not compatible with standard (single) platinum plugs. Something about them eroding the platinum off the 2 backwards firing plugs. In our waste spark ignition the coil fires (the coil pack has only to coils in it) 2 plugs every time. Once when it is around TDC on compression and once on exhaust(where it does no harm). So you coil actually fires 2 plugs when it goes off. So it goes from the coil to say the plug on cylinder 1 which grounds to the block the block the fires to the plug on cylinder 3 and back to the coil where it ULTIMATELY grounds out. So say plug 3 fires backwards and is now susceptible erosion of the platinum off the plug.

Who says this??? None other than BOSCH and AUTOLITE do.

If you like the longevity of platinum then you are perfectly OK in using DOUBLE platinum plugs(platinum on the ground electrode too). Who says this??? Autolite and the auto manufacturers who used them in DIS ignitions(like FORD) for years!!!

You are perfectly OK using

Standard copper core plugs
Double Platinum plugs
Iridium plugs
Iridium and Platinum plugs (it just works)

Just not single platinum.

So the Bosch plugs, I do not care how many ground straps they have, should be off your shopping list permanently by Bosch's own admission, unless you are going to run Bosch Super (copper core).
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Post by JRM » Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:58 pm

420a is the dohc that is in the first gen
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Post by lolelectricbluesxt » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:21 pm

The DOHC first gen neon and the second gen non turbo eclipse had similar engines, not the second gen neon.

My 97 2gnt eclipse I used to own had Chrysler symbles pretty much everywhere inside the engine bay. Even my pedels had it.

The DOHC first gen was rated at like 150HP, and the base eclipse was rated at 140HP. It was said that the neon had a more aggressive cam or some nonsense. Not really sure of the details
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Re: Why Not Platinum

Post by BlackRoseRacing » Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:48 am

ewetho wrote:The problem is not platinum itself but the ignition system. DIS (waste spark ignition system) is not compatible with standard (single) platinum plugs. Something about them eroding the platinum off the 2 backwards firing plugs. In our waste spark ignition the coil fires (the coil pack has only to coils in it) 2 plugs every time. Once when it is around TDC on compression and once on exhaust(where it does no harm). So you coil actually fires 2 plugs when it goes off. So it goes from the coil to say the plug on cylinder 1 which grounds to the block the block the fires to the plug on cylinder 3 and back to the coil where it ULTIMATELY grounds out. So say plug 3 fires backwards and is now susceptible erosion of the platinum off the plug.

Who says this??? None other than BOSCH and AUTOLITE do.

If you like the longevity of platinum then you are perfectly OK in using DOUBLE platinum plugs(platinum on the ground electrode too). Who says this??? Autolite and the auto manufacturers who used them in DIS ignitions(like FORD) for years!!!

You are perfectly OK using

Standard copper core plugs
Double Platinum plugs
Iridium plugs
Iridium and Platinum plugs (it just works)

Just not single platinum.

So the Bosch plugs, I do not care how many ground straps they have, should be off your shopping list permanently by Bosch's own admission, unless you are going to run Bosch Super (copper core).
Best explanation ever posted here!
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Post by kc2005ptgt » Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:52 pm

racer12306 wrote:i believe A588 is a transmission.
Our manual tranny is actually a T-350 and the auto 4spd is 41TE (3spd is 31TH).
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Post by jonnymopar » Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:08 pm

kc2002acr wrote:Our manual tranny is actually a T-350 and the auto 4spd is 41TE (3spd is 31TH).
I think he was talking about the older turbo Dodge transmission: A460, A520, A523, A525, A543, A555, A568. I don't recall there being a 588 though.
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Re: Spark Plugs again

Post by 79cutlas » Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:24 pm

latief wrote: Yesterday i was at Autozone shopping for plugs, the salesman insisted that he used to work at a dodge dealership, and he told me that they never heard that Platnium plugs are not good with neons, he told me that this is a Japanese engine (which is true i guess since it is a mitsubishi 420 in our cars), and he told me that these engines should work fine with bosch platinums since japanese cars never use Champions....anyhow, he wanted the scientific explanation for why these should not work,

LMAO, this is awesome..

1. Why would you leave a dealership parts counter that paid $15+/hour and almost an impossible job to get to work for $7.50 at AutoZone?
2. They are told to push the Bosch Platinum +2's and up, they get like $2 a sale on those plugs
3. He has no idea what he's talking about with a Japanese Engine, if anything it would be a German engine before it was Japan. (2K's and up)
4. Why dont Japanese cars ever use Champions? They're still an option.
5. Who the fck is he to ask for a specific explaination??/ Just some stupid parts salesman who was either a lot attendant at a dealership, or got fired from the dealership for being incompetant...

However, would you PLEEASE give me the store number and possibly his name??? I'd love to call and mess with him about the Neon engine and what plugs to use, maybe see if he sold the oil additive with K9-P in it at the dealership thats a must have in the Neon engine, or if they had the Honda generators with Vtec...

I used to work for AutoZone before I got tired of the crappy hours, low pay, no advancement (unless your daddy spent $10000's of $$ there and you were an 18 year old assistant manager) and my other counterpeople not knowing that there were different size oil filter wrenches, or anything relevant to fixing a car....they knew where the stickers and seat covers were, but nothing about parts...I now officially get annoyed everytime I go in there and ask for a part.
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Post by sullygully » Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:59 pm

Its pretty simple really

Bosch plugs are made for european cars, NGK's are made for Japanese cars, and Champions are made for American cars.

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