2GN.ORG

So right now I have a stock 2005 MTX SXT. In the end, I want to have the most insanely fast car. What I need to know is- what is the middle step? What all upgrades should be made?

Other notes:
I don't care so much about fancy spoilers, rims, or body kits.
Don't say "buy a new car" or "engine swap".
I have no problem spending some money on this, I just want to build up my car to make it not incredibly slow like it is now.

if you really want to have the craziest fastest 05 than engine swap is your only answer.....however if you wanna stay with the 2.0 i suggest going megasquirt and use a stroker motor to get some extra displacement.....new pistons and rods and then going turbo....if its gonna be a street car i say crane 14 but if not, than definately something bigger

yellowpatrol wrote:I want to have the most insanely fast car.

^um yea..

You have an "ok" platform to work with considering you have a MTX, you need to read up about NGC.. basically any performance mods you do to a 03+ neon the PCM will adapt to it and basically negate the mod.

you got alot of reading to do make your car "insanely fast" and hopefully you have deep pockets.

i know you said no swap but if u want it to be the best bang for you buck you should do it and once you swap it send the car to AMS to get it up to 700HP http://videos.streetfire.net/video/4745 ... fecd10.htm

thanks for the replies. I appreciate all of the feedback and will be taking everything into consideration. please keep 'em coming.

ulitmate power:
either get rid of your sxt and get an srt and build it up or swap in a 2.4.

you can build some serious power with the aftermarket support out there for the srt.

the highest hp 2.0 that i know of was roach's (guy from neons.org) he was up over 400 and was aiming for 450 but never made it. he probably has as much in that 400hp as a 600 or 650hp 2.4 turbo.

search around here, and on neons.org there is a lot of information about making the 2.0 have a little more power. people have been doing it for 12 years. even if you dont go insane with the power this information will still beable to point you in the right direction. a little turbo will liven up the motor a bit, enough to make it get out of its own way.

2.4T motor sway is your best bet.

Or you could boost the 2.0 as said above, and you might make 300-400 whp if you do it right and have the money.

A built NA 2.0 with all the bells and whistles could be good for 170+ whp with an aftermarket EMS, but with the stock computer, you wont go anywhere.

Cool. I guess the best thing is to do the swap. It makes sense because the engine I've got wasn't really built for this sort of thing.

I've found an engine on eBay, looks to be in great shape. I doubt that I would be able to do the swap. What do you guys think a shop would charge to do it for me? Also, is the Turbo PT Cruiser engine the same as the SRT-4? They are both the A855, right?

Edit: Do you guys think I would be able to make any money back by selling my stock engine? Would anybody out there buy it, or would I be better to keep it as a fall-back?

your main problem is NGC....but the swap isnt too bad....you would get raped at a shop...probably at least $800-$1000.....motor swaps are easier than some people think....the hardest part is the wiring and the axles

^ what he said..

bad01neon wrote:your main problem is NGC....but the swap isnt too bad....you would get raped at a shop...probably at least $800-$1000.....motor swaps are easier than some people think....the hardest part is the wiring and the axles

Sorry, but what does NGC stand for?

What is the best way to get psyched up and prepared to do an engine swap on my own? I need some learnin' materials if I'm gonna do it.

New Generation Computer....its on all 03+....when you add a mod, NGC thinks something is wrong with your engine so it adjusts itself back to stock....so all your mods are pretty much just pretty parts that do jack shit....the only way around it is megasquirt or some other ecu mod like an AF/X race pcm....as for the engine swap we got lucky because we have a PRETTY MUCH bolt on swap....key words pretty much...just do as much reading as you can before diving in....honestly a good way to learn shit is go to a junkyard and take stuff apart to see how everything works and where stuff is located....i pulled a head off an 00 on a junkyard for practice before i pulled my real one and i still ran into unexpected problems so make sure your ready and set....also no matter how prepared you are something will go wrong....make sure your ready and have some backup funds to pay for w/e it is that will go wrong...for me it was a cooling pipe and now i have a gallon of antifreeze everywhere and had to order the pipe from OH to IN....

bad01neon wrote:New Generation Computer....its on all 03+....when you add a mod, NGC thinks something is wrong with your engine so it adjusts itself back to stock....so all your mods are pretty much just pretty parts that do jack shit....the only way around it is megasquirt or some other ecu mod like an AF/X race pcm....

HEARSAY!

Look, No one, I mean, no one has ever proved NGC. I am not trying to be mean, or a jerk, or a typical .org'er, but seriously, this has not been proven. Now, to keep from turning this into the famous NGC debate on these forums, I will concur that in our little 2.0 engines, we have possibilities, but money is the issue... look for a guy named ROach on the other org and ask for his mod list - that is a 400hp 2.0. Then ask how much he spent

2.4T swap is best for "insane" power. I am going for the 2.0T route... not looking for insane power.

eh... yea..

Trade your car in and get a better platform.

an 03-05 Neon won't do anything unless you throw tons of money at it. And you won't go anywhere without getting rid of the NGC.

srt swap is about your only answer for "insane" power" .. one thing you most likely havent though about is traction issues... srt's are notorouis for zero traction so keep that in mind if you want your little neon to put the power to the ground your gonna need one hella stiff suspension and some sticky ass tires...in other words say goodbye to your social life and learn to make sweet love to your neon... becuase i doubt very many girls wanna ride in a car that has a solid suspension and is noisy as fuck and spends a majority of its time in the shop or garage... personally my vote goes for srt swap and a DBB 50trim and coilovers....say hello to 11's and fairly good reliability

^lol

Okay guys thanks. It's lookin like I'm just gonna keep it stock and be happy with it. It beats the hell out of my previous ride- a V8 1988 F-150 (see avatar). I don't have enough money for this stuff.

You can still do the basics and have a much more fun to drive car and make very few sacrifices in refinement and money. I have only intake exhaust and underdrive pulley and it's way more fun to drive than it used to be. Best of all, that stuff costs nothing used here on this forum or on the other org. What I payed:

Aem Cold air intake: $100 shipped
Mpx underdrive pulley: $100 shipped
r/t exhaust: $100 shipped

$300 and your car sounds 50x cooler looks way sexier from the rear, and even pulls noticeably harder especially around 4000 rpm. All of these mods I installed myself and I am a total newb-ass when it comes to working on cars.

If your looking for "budget" mods that will make a difference on you car i would recomend the MPX Underdrive Pulley, a Mopure STS, and some 1gn r/t springs, Clear corners, PTGT/SRT swaybars. your car will rev faster and have alittle more power, shift slightly faster and handle MUCH better, and look better for about 400-600..essientially it will just be more fun and still be reliable.. toss in a 50-75 shot and you will just have much more fun!

So the NGC won't sense that I'm getting too much air and just adjust to compensate if I add a CAI?

EDIT:
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Is a STS really worth it? I don't really have a problem with shifting, and if it isn't broke, why fix it? What were your thoughts for those of you who installed one?

it's just a shorter throw to get it into and out of gears, which allows for quicker overall shifts. makes sense?
[quote]if you want your little neon to put the power to the ground your gonna need one hella stiff suspension and some sticky ass tires...in other words say goodbye to your social life and learn to make sweet love to your neon... becuase i doubt very many girls wanna ride in a car that has a solid suspension and is noisy as fuck and spends a majority of its time in the shop or garage...

that so sounds like my car, and it's so true. My gf got in my car once and we went around the block, she hates it, refuses to sit in it anymore. But it's like driving on a damn rock, no suspension travel.

Yellowpatrol= Most people that have CAI's firstly notice a gain but later on race someone with the same or less mods and are very disapointed. Ill try to explain dominant NGC theory(at least 6 months ago lol) Its believed that NGC is somewhat of a DCx solution for the "ultimate" in economy and reliability. Which is why it trys to compensate and bring back down the power when a mod is added. And for most people that means that anything dealing with air or fuel mod is pretty much worthless so my vote for the CAI is a pretty much no unless you just want something shiny underneath your hood becuase i had a car club buddy that had the same exact mods as me but a 03 and i raped him everytime unless he reset his PCM which only lasted a run or two and each run him getting progressively slower so your gonna wanna stay away from any mod that affects air and fuel which is why i mentioned many mods that dont affect fuel or air. One exception to this is forced induction like N20, Turbochargers, or superchargers.

00element10= haha yeah i learned the hardway good thing i have some forgiving girls or i would just have to become a unic "snippy snippy" hahah jkz that would suck...

haha yeah it would

NGC does indeed exist as a program in our computer. there are direct references to it in the FSM. whether or not its true that NGC can "override" mods is whats up in the air. any modern computer controlled car is designed to learn what the drivers habits are and adjust accordingly, as well as adjust to climate, conditions, and other variables. the NGC controller is no different. cars use long term and short term fuel trim to adjust for emissions and fuel mileage, and they use inputs from TPS and other sensors to determine engine response based on driver demand.
Adding something like a cold air intake, for example, isnt going to make huge gains on our cars, because the stock system already does its job well; it really doesnt have anything to do with the PCM. A CAI will allow cooler, better flowing air into the intake manifold. This will cause the IAT (intake air temperature) sensor to read lower temps, which in turn allows a more aggressive fuel/timing map, making a bit more power in certain ranges. simple as that. People make NGC out to be a big mystery, when its really not that amazing. just technology getting better.

Either way you look at it, to make power, the srt swap is a better idea. The stock 2.0 can be a fun motor with some simple bolt ons and a well tuned chassis as well, but its never gonne be a 'fast' car. it all depends on budget and perspective.

Yes, OB said it best - NGC is real, but the "fact" that everyone keeps pushing, saying it will kill mods is myth. Show me the proof! (I am from Missouri, the show me state)