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ok i got it for free so dont make fun just please help

everything is hooked up and i spliced the o2 sensor wire into the black w/ green stripe one leading to the pcm and its not moving when the car is on its just stuck on rich


anyone have a suggestion

If the car is running OK, then you have the wrong wire, or the gauge is dead, which is probably why you got it for free.

Nothing wrong with a narrow band. I've tuned three turbocharged cars with just that, one pushing 23psi.

BUT why you'd need it for a nonturbo is a mystery to me, you'd be better off selling it to someone who can use it. Not laughing at you, but just kinda confused.

Sorta like the guy who's putting an AFC on his naturally-aspirated 2GN. Kinda pointless.

Anyways it sounds like you have the wrong signal wire but the right ground. These are what, three wire O2's?

Shouldn't be that hard to switch them around a couple times until it works. But again I wonder....

...why?

He got it for free, why not? May not be able to do much with it, but if he learns something from it then what's the harm? If he learns some thing and shares then all the better. We are all at various levels of knowlege on here, so what may seem pointless to some,to others, they have to learn for themselves. Not trying to be a dick here but we shouldn't discouage ppl from trying stuff we already know. Just never know what they may come up with...

Not sure what he could learn... it would be like installing a boost gauge. It won't give you any real insight or knowledge other than hooking it up.

it's not that it's something we already know how to do, it's that it has absolutely no use on a non-boosted or non-nitrous car. I'm not discouaging wisdom, but he should know what it's for in the first place.

own3d5974 wrote:ok i got it for free so dont make fun just please help

Even if you had a turbo, there's no reason to make fun of you. Anybody that says you NEED a wideband, no matter what type of induction you're running, is lying. Turbochargers, superchargers, nitrous, etc. have been around for decades. Widebands have not. Are they nice? Hell yeah. Are they more accurate? Definitely. Can you tune your car well without one? Damn right you can.

On 2003+ vehicles, with the NGC unit, you will need to have a second O2 sensor welded in to use. DCx sells a unit that includes everything, but its an O2 sensor you can purchase cheaply from any auto parts store.

As far as having it in an N/A car, it doesn't hurt anything, so why bother givin' him a hard time? He wants to do it, we can all give him a hand to figure it out. As far as an AFC on a N/A Neon, it wouldn't hurt, considering how rich our cars run, you can use it to pull some fuel and get more power.

As far as the O2 meter goes, I guess to me it's like having a shift light on an ATX car. And anyways from what you said, he's a 2003+ car and now he'll have to buy another O2 sensor and pay to have it welded in. A lot of trouble (and $$$) for something that does absolutely nothing.

I dunno about the AFC thing, this is the first I've heard of our cars running rich, not saying you're not right, I guess I'd just like to know more about that.

hey it was free in box so i was like what the hell.............. yea if i need to held another bung w/o2 sensor then i will just sell it to some one else............and i know that its not accurate at all and that it will not do anything for the car but remember it was free.......so if anyone has found a way to get one to work on a ngc without another sensor then let me know

Actually at WOT they can be quite accurate. How much would you sell it for?

Arro wrote:Not sure what he could learn... it would be like installing a boost gauge. It won't give you any real insight or knowledge other than hooking it up.

it's not that it's something we already know how to do, it's that it has absolutely no use on a non-boosted or non-nitrous car. I'm not discouaging wisdom, but he should know what it's for in the first place.

HAHA that's the funniest thing i've heard all day.

Once you get past your average bolt ons, start messing with the fuel system...then tell me you're not going to need something to moniter air/fuel and hey that's on a n/a car....imagine that

What is "getting past your average bolt ons"? Nobody has answered in any detail yet on that. Forced induction or nitrous, I can understand. But N/A? What, higher compression? That means piston swap, which starts to get into some serious $$$.

Anything past "your average bolt ons" is gonna need a lot more than an 02 gauge. Imagine that

Anyways at the point where he needs to modify his mixture, guess what? An afc can be rigged to display narrow-band 02 voltages, too. I know because I wired it up for that on my DSM.

So I guess the question is directed at own3d5974: whatcha gonna do with yer car in the forseeable future?

Canada wrote:On 2003+ vehicles, with the NGC unit, you will need to have a second O2 sensor welded in to use.

Arro wrote:What is "getting past your average bolt ons"? Nobody has answered in any detail yet on that. Forced induction or nitrous, I can understand. But N/A? What, higher compression? That means piston swap, which starts to get into some serious $$$.

Anything past "your average bolt ons" is gonna need a lot more than an 02 gauge. Imagine that

Anyways at the point where he needs to modify his mixture, guess what? An afc can be rigged to display narrow-band 02 voltages, too. I know because I wired it up for that on my DSM.

I just told you exactly when you were going to start needing it. Once you start messing with the fuel system you're going to need at least a narrowband to point you in a general direction. If he does decide to go with a higher compression then yes, that's more than enough of an excuse to moniter a/f

If he gets to the point where he'll need to be altering the fuel system then he'd already know that he'd need something to moniter and regulate fuel. And hey, we're still dealing with a naturally asperated car.

And I asked you WHY he would need to start messing with the fuel system

You never specified what was "getting past your average bolt ons". Can you explain that one for me? Most of what you said is kinda vague is all I'm sayin'. Come on. Educate me on something I might not know here.

Exclude piston compression change because for 98% of the guys on here, that's not something they will do (very costly and requires more than just different pistons). They'll turbocharge before they build a high-compression race engine. In fact I think right now only one guy is doing it on 2GN.org , the Darrell Cox motor.

I'm not tryin' to hijack this thread. My whole point here is to make sure people know what it is they are actually trying to do, and why. I know very well that people sometimes get a vague idea of things, and misunderstand. There's nothing wrong with an 02 sensor. Also nothing wrong with a nitrous pressure gauge, or a manual boost controller, or an EGT gauge (which is better than an 02 for higher compression N/A). Nothing wrong with any of these items. But they are only useful in certain build-up scenarios, and not in others. I'm just trying to ascertain that he (and you and whoever) knows what those scenarios are, and aren't just wasting money and time in a direction that's not going to work for you. It would be like Honda guys buying a VTEC controller after they turbocharged. If you know anything about VTEC and boost, you'd know that you leave VTEC permenantly ON (big cam profile) so you can get the most airflow for the turbo. So a VTEC controller is useless.

So like I said, I'm just trying to get you to explain what "getting past your average bolt ons" might actually consist of, because I want people to really understand what they are doing (and why), and well, because I have all day every day to jaw about this shit, since I'm still on unemployment.

So please, indulge me and us all with an explanation

who's to say he's not going to do 12.5:1 compression? A larger cam or swap to a DOHC setup with larger cams? I mean seriously, what are you looking for me to explain?

The chance of him doing that are like you said, relatively slim, but it wont hurt anything.

I'm really not trying to personally attack you, i'm just telling you that you're wrong about using a narrowband, or wideband, for a NA application. It does have uses and depending on what he's doing with the car will or could eventually come into play.

I believe someone on the boards once said that although his narrowband didn't really do much, it taught him alot about how, when, and why the car switches from closed loop to open loop operation. And in my opinion, anything that gives you a better idea of where your car is at, that gets you more in touch with your car, is a good thing.
As for AFCs, they start coming in handy when you move to a crane 14 or bigger cam. Alot of guys use them to tune their idle, for starters, because the big cam makes the car idle rich. And quite a few people have made greater than 5% peak HP gains by tuning with an AFC. Bear in mind that most of these people are running an A/FX race ECU, so I don't know what impact that has, but there are gains to be had when you're running a "big" cam and a LTH at high RPMs.