Moral delimma

Wenuden · Post by **Wenuden** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:29 am

So I got pulled over tonight for "doing 81 MPH in a 55 zone" (barely over wreckless). in reality, i got pulled over becuase i cut a cop off. I was doing at most 60-64 (2nd gear, coming off an entrance ramp to the highway). the person in front of me, going a similar speed, slammed on their brakes, and i was forced to change lanes quickly to avoid driving up their ass. I used a turn signal, didn't cross solid white or yellow lines (crossed dashed white lines legally), and the vehicle i changed lanes in front of (a state trooper that was at least 40 feet behind me when i changed lanes) had to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting me (his head lights dipped lower than i could see in my rear view, and i'm riding on a 2" drop, which tells me he was doing in excess of 70 MPH, at least, in the right lane of a 4 lane highway). I ended up getting a ticket for "improper lane change". this was after a 40 minute sit on the side of the road while he worked out my registration, since i have a temp transfer form from the dealership where i bought my car, and a field sobriety test (passed with flying colors since i was sober) since i had had a few beers this afternoon (3-4 hours before getting in the car), which i was truthful about. the officer proceeded to tell me that it would be in my best interest to prepay the ticket since "you don't want to be in court when i tell the judge what i have to say". this guy has jack shit on me, no speeding, no improper lane change, not a god damn thing. I also have a witness to my use of a turn signal and the fact that i was attempting to avoid an accident when i changed lanes. I KNOW it's the officers responsibilty to supply proof in this case, which he can't do, but it would be so much easier to prepay and be done with it. my problem is, why should my insurance go up because a prick pig thinks i'm an ignorant fuck? my passenger (who never received a sobriety test) is willing to testify to my use of a turn signal, and the person in front of me slamming on the brakes for no reason (and my lawyer works for the cochran firm). I'm tempted to go to court just to avoid the court costs (typically dropped if pled not guilty to and found guilty of around here).

Kelevra · Post by **Kelevra** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:20 am

the worst that could happen is you have to pay, so fight it! they cant raise the penalty nomatter what! if he has something else to add to it he cant because he didnt write any other tickets. he told you to prepay because he doesn't want to go to court. FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!

dblsg · Post by **dblsg** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:13 am

Kelevra wrote: FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:59 am

dblsg wrote:
Kelevra wrote: FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!

+1
I would never admit to wrongdoing if I weren't guilty.

evilneon02 · Post by **evilneon02** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:09 am

fight man show these damn pigs they not always right. just b/c they have a badge dont mean they can do what they want and get away with it.

dodge_girl · Post by **dodge_girl** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:24 am

Midnight_Rider wrote:
dblsg wrote:
Kelevra wrote: FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!

+1
I would never admit to wrongdoing if I weren't guilty.

Post by **jonnymopar** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:46 pm

Always fight any ticket you can. They can't increase the ticket for fighting it, so no matter how bad a violation might be, ALWAYS fight tickets.

Hudson_Neon · Post by **Hudson_Neon** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:30 pm

i'd fight it. one of 3 things will happen... you'll win, they'll lower it, or you'll loose. but remember, don't let them try to pin guilty on you if you loose. if you loose you gotta fight for a "no contest". that way you're never really "guilty" of anything

jckevns · Post by **jckevns** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:00 pm

so what was the ticket actually for speeding or improper lane change

rOniN · Post by **rOniN** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:25 pm

You could just have a lawyer go in there and make it disappear real quick.

Even if you went in there knowing you were right chances are if the cop does show up you will lose because cops are always right. He will have you on video...which will probably make it look like you were driving erratically. They probably won’t care if you were trying to avoid an accident either. Government sucks sometimes...

Good luck though!

Post by **Canada** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:08 pm

No way man.

Do not let him pull this shit. No matter what I do when I get a ticket, I always fight it, because you never know what will happen. The cop may not show ro something.

Like someone else said, they can't increase it, so either you pay then, or the drop it. Sounds good either way huh?

Kelevra · Post by **Kelevra** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:42 pm

ok. you have a 12/0 vote. you have your answer! STICK IT TO THE MAN!!!

Hudson_Neon · Post by **Hudson_Neon** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:50 pm

Kelevra wrote:ok. you have a 12/0 vote. you have your answer! STICK IT TO THE MAN!!!

somebody just quoted school of rock

Wenuden · Post by **Wenuden** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:37 pm

great feedback. i've decided if court is on a monday, i'm going to go. if it's not, i'll get my lawyer to get it continued to a monday and then go. i'm definitely not using vacation time to deal with this shit.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:23 pm

You get mondays off? That's a fineable offense right there! (unless you have to work Sat or Sun to makeup for it)

bigbird · Post by **bigbird** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:49 pm

Go to court, heck he might not even show up! That happened to me when I was just 16, and I didn't pay anything! Of course my dad took the car away for a month anyway!

half_twisted · Post by **half_twisted** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:02 am

I say fight, but in all honesty and i dont mean to shit on any ones parade.. Only thing they might tag you with is tale gateing.. Judge might say they you would have not been forced to change lanes like you did if you woul d have kept your distance. And only time you would get away with a quick lane change like that is if your actions didnt effect anyone else around you..

Only reason Im bringing it up because I was lucky to attend a court room that had state troopers, High way Patrol and loacal PD that were called in and prove the citation given to the diffendant what was claiming not guilty.
one of those disputes was almost the same story. Guy/b was driving 100ft infront of the cop/c on the right lanewhen the car infront of guy/b sudentley slowed down and made a quick right into a small street. during the sudden braking of the first car/a car/b made a sudden lane change and caused the car to his left to swerve left and brake. guy/bs actions effected another car and could have been avoided if he were not tale gateing..

just my too.

think about it...

sullygully · Post by **sullygully** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:01 am

Theres a good chance you will lose if you fight it. Years ago i was sitting at a red light, when i decided i didn't want to go straight, so i signaled, and turned right. (it is legal to turn on a red light here, as long as you come to a full stop).

A cop pulled me over soon after and told me i didn't stop at the red light. I told him i was sitting there for at least 30 seconds, and he obviously didn't believe me, since they are stuborn fucks.

I ended up getting a Lawyer that specialized in traffic ticktets, and the only way to get the ticket droped, was for me to pleed guilty, on grounds that i take and pass a drivers education course. Basically, he figured it was his word against mine, and the judge will most always take the cops side.

So a $180 ticket with 3 demerit points, plus the cost of insurance going up, ended up being a 450 drivers ed course, but with no demerit points lost.

I got screwed either way, but at least my insurance didn't go up, nor did i lose any points. And all i was doing was going for a 2.50 slice of pizza and pop. Ain't that peachy?

Post by **jonnymopar** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:31 am

sullygully wrote:Theres a good chance you will lose if you fight it.

Look at it this way. Say there's a 98% you'll lose if you fight it. If you pre-pay, you've increased your chances of losing to 100%.

sullygully · Post by **sullygully** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:41 pm

^ The question he should be asking him self is: Would it be cheaper to just pay the ticket, then to have to pay for a lawyer? Cuz last time i checked, lawyers weren't free. Find out how many points you lost, find out if your insurance will go up, etc.

Post by **jonnymopar** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:18 pm

True. I've never used a lawyer so I've never run across that problem. Every ticket that I've fought (4 total) were reduced. As far as insurance, I still got screwed on the two in-state tickets. The two out-of-state tickets that I have didn't affect my insurance at all.

Wenuden · Post by **Wenuden** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:35 pm

First off, I have a lawyer on retainer. He gets $700 every January 1st, $500 of which carries over to the next year if i don't have to use him, so it won't cost me anything to fight the ticket.

Second, it's my word, and a credible witness' word against the cops.

Most importantly, the cop (and everyone behind him keeping up with him) wouldn't have been affected in any way what-so-ever if he had not been excessively speeding in the "slow" lane of a 4 lane highway with his flashers off.

And i work saturdays.

Paul56 · Post by **Paul56** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:08 pm

I'd say fight the ticket.

From your original post all I see is a bit of defensive driving on your part to avoid an accident.

...and... the on-ramp is supposed to be used to accelerate up to highway speeds so that a safe merge can be performed. If the cop had to mash the brakes then he wasn't exactly sharing the road by monitoring the traffic merging from the on-ramps and adjusting his speed accordingly to facilitate those merges.

01NeonSnooZer · Post by **01NeonSnooZer** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:39 pm

If you're not guilty, figtht it, dude! I have never been "Not guilty" on my tickets so I face up to them and payed them.

half_twisted · Post by **half_twisted** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:59 pm

Paul56 wrote: From your original post all I see is a bit of defensive driving on your part to avoid an accident.

yeah but when he changed lanes the way he did he almost caused another accident which could have been avoided if he kept his distance from the car infront of him..

sorry dude im just trying to be realistic, but hey if you fight and the cop doesnt show up to court then the case is thrown out. You sticked it to him.

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:21 am

Fight it.

I hate cops.

I have my reasons as well. There are a number of "cool" ones out there, but the rest are royal assholes.

Fight it.

j0n · Post by **j0n** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:00 am

Keep in mind if you go to court and lose...you pay the ticket AND court costs. Also, most jurisdictions hold court once a week, and it's usually not a Monday.

Wenuden · Post by **Wenuden** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:34 pm

half_twisted wrote:
Paul56 wrote: From your original post all I see is a bit of defensive driving on your part to avoid an accident.
yeah but when he changed lanes the way he did he almost caused another accident which could have been avoided if he kept his distance from the car infront of him..

Actually, since the cop was driving at an excessive rate of speed already, any accident would have been his fault by default, plus he would have slammed into the back of me, which in Virginia, is automatically the rear-enders fault, no questions asked, unless the front driver is legally drunk or under the influence of drugs. not to mention, when i changed lanes, he was at least 40 feet behind me, which is more than sufficient for me to gain 5-10 mph to achieve the posted legal speed limit before he drives up my ass, if he's doing the posted legal speed limit. hell, my plan was to hit about 90mph had i not noticed crown vic headlights behind me before i mashed it. i wanted to get as far away as possible from the assclown on the on-ramp, and the highway was pretty much open in front of me.

j0n, around here, you have to pay court costs even if you pre-pay. they call it a processing fee. it's actually more than court costs, usually. bullshit. it's one of the reasons fairfax county has historically been the richest county in the nation (county money wise). and traffic court is held 4-5 days a week.

Paul, i love seeing experienced people's responses to things like this. ...adjusting his speed accordingly to facilitate those merges... i could never have said it that well. those words may possibly come out of my lawyers mouth in court. that's a new classic right there.

j0n · Post by **j0n** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:41 pm

ah well if that's the case i would fight any ticket issued to me there

half_twisted · Post by **half_twisted** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:50 pm

crown vics dang, in orange county cali they drive in R/T chargers and LT yukons even intrepids and 1500 ram pickups... dont really see crown vics that much.. opps my bad. hijack

2GN.ORG

Moral delimma

fight or pre-pay?

Moral delimma