Fog light indicator question

[moe8555]

Just a quick question:
If I completely remove both bulbs from my fog lights, will the indicator still illuminate on the cluster when I pull out the fog light switch?

(under the assumption that there are no problems with the mfs/ mfs plug/fuses/etc.)

[Ramroid]

Just a quick question:
If I completely remove both bulbs from my fog lights, will the indicator still illuminate on the cluster when I pull out the fog light switch?

(under the assumption that there are no problems with the mfs/ mfs plug/fuses/etc.)

Removed both of mine over winter, the indicator still lit up. Im not sure if the mfs in my car is bad, but thats my answer.

[moe8555]

That's kind of what I'm trying to figure out...
I removed a bad MFS just now. The fog light indicator would light up randomly whether or not the headlights were on.

Only a light tap inwards would put the indicator out for a few minutes until lighting back up...

Now the new (used) MFS is in and all the lights and blinkers work as they should. Also the rear fog lights and indicator work.

However, the front fog light indicator doesn't light up when I pull out the switch. I haven't installed bulbs yet, so I'm trying to figure out if this is normal or my new switch is broken...

[MichNeon]

The foglight indicator gets its power from the same feed terminal in the dash fusebox as the foglights do. There are two wires there, one goes to the fogs, and the other goes to the indicator. The power to fuse 19 comes from the mfs, so the problem is in the mfs, if the indicator and fogs are not getting power.
Check out my post, i explained in it about how Chrysler designed the circuits~ viewtopic.php?t=67640&start=0&postdays= ... highlight=

[moe8555]

Let me make sure I got that: the indicator and lights are independent of one another?

I should take a look at pin 19?

My plug showed signs of heat damage, but it wasn't really melted down or anything. I was able to unplug the old switch without any major issues.

What's the best way to test if it's the plug or the MFS?

[MichNeon]

Their power feeds are. There are two Light Blue wires from the dash fuse 19, one goes to the indicator in the cluster, the other goes to the foglights. Here is a schematic i made that may help you to understand how Chrysler wired the foglights. The head lights are wired similarly.
[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/nhx6tcp][ ... .png[/img][/url]
The power starts at fuse 15 in the dash fusebox, goes to cavity 20 (Pink/Red wire) of the mfs connector. When you turn the foglight switch on, power feeds to fuse 19 (Pink/Light Green wire) of the dash fusebox from cavity 14 of the mfs connector. The power then goes to the cluster indicator and the foglights (Light Blue wires). The foglights are connected to ground.

[moe8555]

Thank you very much for the clarification, now it's all clear to me!

I did read your post but I wasn't sure I had understood...

So here's a follow-up: I have no fuse in the slot for fuse 19 and there are no contacts in the slot to even insert a fuse!

I'm hoping that that's just a quirk with export Neons, any export folks care to comment on that?

[MichNeon]

Thank you very much for the clarification, now it's all clear to me!

I did read your post but I wasn't sure I had understood...

So here's a follow-up: I have no fuse in the slot for fuse 19 and there are no contacts in the slot to even insert a fuse!

I'm hoping that that's just a quirk with export Neons, any export folks care to comment on that?

That is because the car was built without foglights. If the car was built with foglights, the wiring would be there.
The wiring diagrams that i'm looking at on Techconnect show the same for domestic and export.
If the indicator had been turning on, either somebody wired a separate switch and included a wire to the cluster, or there is a problem with the cluster, either internally or because of the bad mfs. That does'nt make sense as to why it would light up, as the wiring from the dash fusebox to the cluster is not there.

[moe8555]

What would your next answer be if I told you that I knew for a fact that the car was sold with fog lights?

This is a BUX Neon with both front and rear fogs, leather, cruise, power everything - the works.


See this thread on the org: http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=346766

A guy in South Africa had (almost) the same issue.

[MichNeon]

Hmm, interesting. Yesterday, i did'nt see the export wiring for 2001. I am looking at the wiring for 2002, which shows the output from the switch on Light Blue wires to the lights and the cluster. Seems that the output does'nt go thru a fuse before going to the lights and the cluster. Strange.
Here is a pinout of the connector at the mfs~
MULTI-FUNCTION SWITCH - GRAY 20 WAY

CAV CIRCUIT FUNCTION
1 L50 18WT/TN BRAKE LAMP SWITCH OUTPUT
2 L61 18LG LEFT TURN SIGNAL
2 L61 18LG (BUILT-UP-EXPORT) LEFT TURN SIGNAL
3 L6 20RD/WT FUSED IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT (RUN-ACC)
4 L63 18DG/RD LEFT TURN SIGNAL
4 L63 18DG/RD (BUILT-UP-EXPORT) LEFT TURN SIGNAL
5 L62 18BR/RD RIGHT TURN SIGNAL
5 L62 18BR/RD (BUILT-UP-EXPORT) RIGHT TURN SIGNAL
6 L60 18TN RIGHT TURN SIGNAL
6 L60 18TN (BUILT-UP-EXPORT) RIGHT TURN SIGNAL
7 Z3 20BK/OR GROUND
8 E19 22RD PANEL LAMPS DIMMER SIGNAL
9 L7 20BK/YL HEADLAMP SWITCH OUTPUT
10 - -
11 A15 18WT FUSED B(+)
12 L38 16BR/WT (BUILT-UP-EXPORT) REAR FOG LAMP FEED
12 L38 16BR/WT (BUILT-UP-EXPORT) REAR FOG LAMP FEED
13 L4 14VT/WT (EXCEPT BUILT-UP-EXPORT) DIMMER SWITCH LOW BEAM OUTPUT
13 F61 16WT/OR (BUILT-UP-EXPORT) FUSED B(+)
14 L39 16LB (BUILT-UP-EXPORT) FRONT FOG LAMP SWITCH OUTPUT
14 L39 16LB (BUILT-UP-EXPORT) FRONT FOG LAMP SWITCH OUTPUT
14 F39 14PK/LG (EXCEPT BUILT-UP-EXPORT) FRONT FOG LAMP SWITCH OUTPUT
15 - -
16 L4 14VT/WT DIMMER SWITCH LOW BEAM OUTPUT
17 L33 14LG/BR DIMMER SWITCH HIGH BEAM OUTPUT
18 F3 12LB/OR FUSED B(+)
19 F3 12LB/OR FUSED B(+)
20 F33 18PK/RD FUSED B(+)
Hope this helps. I'm a little confused right now, as what i'm seeing is that the wiring goes directly to the fogs and the cluster, instead of going to a fuse, then to the lights and the cluster.

[Gnuserup]

Don't know how they did on non-bux neons, but I'm sure on every bux, the wiring includes the indicator wire from factory.

If you buy the Foglightskit they do not mention that this wire needs to get installed and I installed foglights several times.

Btw. without frontfog MFS the gear/ actuator isn't present, so the indicator won't show up.

[MichNeon]

Well, how they wired it on non bux cars is exactly how i illustrated it.
It's just that the wiring diagrams are'nt clear about whether or not the wiring goes to a fuse between the switch and the lights for the exports (bux). The diagrams are clear about the non bux setup.