Relays

MichNeon · Post by **MichNeon** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:12 pm

Alright guys, got a good question for you. What would cause relays in the pdc to burn out quickly? I've replaced the starter relay about two or three times already this year, same with the horn relay. Just had my R/T die at the atm on my way home tonight. Did the usual quick diags, no go. Then i remembered how the starter and horn relays go out, so i swapped relays until the car started back up. Turns out that the asd relay was bad. That would explain the prolonged start this morning. It cranked much longer than normal until it fired up. Fortunately, i keep spare relays in my center console box. Still, that was a first for any of my cars.
I'm good with electrical, but i don't understand why the relays are going bad like that so quickly.
Btw, i've also posted this on the org.

gtxtreme19 · Post by **gtxtreme19** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:18 am

Seeing as its your starter, ASD, and horn I would have to assume it might be something in the ignition wreaking havoc in your electrical. Possibly a short to ground somewhere causing it to draw enough juice to destroy relays but not pop a fuse? I'm just thinking aloud here and might be way off but I think its a possibility. Nick or Bill may know more than me they seem to remember threads and know more about issues like this.

trojmn · Post by **trojmn** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:47 am

leaking battery recently?

I assume you are testing these relays. It can actually be hard to do bad relays can be unpredictable with temp changes and slight voltage changes.

Could also be the contacts in the PDC. disassemble is possible and a pita but worth it. I had a coupe that were in poor shape from a bad battery. protip: no oily contact cleaners!! or else possibility of spontaneous starter engagement even two years later (funny story but -20F weather) CRC makes a good dry electrical contact cleaner. really just baking soda in an aerosol can.

I had 2 relays quit in a week and another that was "suspect". in the end a good PDC cleaning and replacing all with low mile OEM spares from a Charger R/T fixed my issues permanently.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:29 pm

What I posted on the .org:

Vitor wrote:Solenoid in starter is probably sticking and drawing more current than it should, but not enough to blow the fuse.

occasional demons wrote:But what about the horn and ASD relay?

My '01 sits out year 'round, and the only relay I have ever had go bad was the ASD relay, and the fuel pump relay, but the fuel pump relay was due to the hood/fender being smashed into the PDC. The broken PDC was even semi exposed to the elements for almost a year.

Is it possible the small capacitor that ties into the ASD relay output is failing somehow? it shouldn't be tied into the starter or horn tho. Are you using new Omron relays, or used? Maybe get an amp draw across the relay sockets for each relay, to see what the actual current draw is. The starter solenoid and horn could be bad like Vitor said, and the ASD could just be coincidence. If the amperage seems normal, maybe install a cap in the other two circuits to prevent any arcing on the relay contacts.

Edit: Since the PCM grounds (except the horn) the relays to power them, maybe the ground is not good, and the relays are chattering rapidly/not holding well. A bad horn switch in the air bag, or a clockspring could in theory do the same thing.

MichNeon · Post by **MichNeon** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:02 pm

One point i should have mentioned; they're not all going around the same time, and not w/in hours or days of each other. I figured the horn relay because i use the key fob to lock the doors as i walk away from the car, the horn honks once with the single lights flash. When the horn does'nt honk, i know the relay is not working.
Thanks for the input, guys, you've given me insight that has helped.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:28 pm

gtxtreme19 wrote: Nick or Bill may know more than me they seem to remember threads and know more about issues like this.

Thanks for the kudos.

Here is the other thread, with another user having weird relay issues:
viewtopic.php?t=67963

- Nick

MichNeon · Post by **MichNeon** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:42 am

Thank you, nick, for posting that thread link.

MichNeon · Post by **MichNeon** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:56 pm

Allright, Today i had some time at work before going home, i took the grounds apart and cleaned them. I cleaned G102 and G103, put new bolts in them, as they were rusty, too. I cleaned the ground attachments of the strap on the right side of the engine, where they bolt to the mount and the torque strut bracket. I also cleaned the ground next to the pdc, and put a new bolt on that, too. I also coated everything with dielectric grease. Hopefully, that will fix the problem.
I posted pics on my post on the org. I could'nt figure out how to get them to upload from my computer to here. My Imageshack account is having problems, so i can't upload to it right now.

Edit 12/02; Image shack fixed the problems, now i can upload to my account. Here are the pics~
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MichNeon · Post by **MichNeon** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:38 pm

Ok, i posted this on the org~
Update~ Alright, it has happened again, started to accelerate onto the autobahn yesterday, engine lost power, acted like a misfire. Did the keydance, got a laundry list of codes. After doing a quick visual inspection, i swapped the horn relay with the asd relay. Car fired right up as normal. Before the asd relay crapped out, the starter was acting like it was dying. After swapping the relays, the starter is acting normal. So for now, i'm going to grab some extra relays until i get a chance to take the pdc apart and clean it out. I suspect that there is some corrosion in the wiring. I remember that when i first got the R/T, i noticed that there was some corrosion in the relay sockets, and cleaned them out. Maybe the corrosion is in there in the underside, and i need to get in there and clean it out.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:30 pm

Maybe get some WD40, and some 800 grit wet sandpaper and work clean the slide surfaces of the terminals. You may need to remove them from the PDC body to do this. There are locks that need slid out the side to remove the terminals. Once the locks are out, a small pick can be used to release the terminals out the bottom.