NGC Drag racing fail. any suggestions.

silverneontuner · Post by **silverneontuner** » Sat May 29, 2010 1:03 pm

Hey guys went to the track last weekend for a test and tune. Ran a 17.3 very dissapointed/discouraged. Heres my mods . R/T engine swap, Comp 400, Functional R/t Intake, Short Ram CAI, MTX 3.55 swap, OBX short tube and a dynomax dual outlet. Could i be doing something wrong???. im also running the proper PCM (04 SXT MTX) for mtx. I also had my 17s on probly a larger part of the problem. Any input appreciated...

heydockyle · Post by **heydockyle** » Sat May 29, 2010 1:14 pm

Do you have a time slip?

Was was 60ft like?

Thats pretty slow for what you have but I'm betting you spun alot.
17's can slow you down depending on how heavy they are, but shouldn't that much.

neonslg09 · Post by **neonslg09** » Sat May 29, 2010 1:22 pm

Goddamn that's slow.

r/tguy02 · Post by **r/tguy02** » Sat May 29, 2010 1:26 pm

yeah that tire/rim combo is not helping, you should be high 16's with that setup. do you have an adjustable cam gear? if so what is it set at?

heydockyle · Post by **heydockyle** » Sat May 29, 2010 1:56 pm

High 16's???

I'm pretty sure frank ran a low 16 on a stock sxt mtx...

r/tguy02 · Post by **r/tguy02** » Sat May 29, 2010 2:03 pm

heydockyle wrote:High 16's???

I'm pretty sure frank ran a low 16 on a stock sxt mtx...

thats my experience, others may differ...

Dylan-00Blue · Post by **Dylan-00Blue** » Sat May 29, 2010 2:51 pm

yeah i ran 16.4 bone stock 2000 mtx...

darthroush · Post by **darthroush** » Sat May 29, 2010 2:56 pm

heydockyle wrote:High 16's???

I'm pretty sure frank ran a low 16 on a stock sxt mtx...

I was going to say, that's a lot of damn work for high 16's. I agree with 16's stock. I also +1 the track slip.

Haganracing · Post by **Haganracing** » Sat May 29, 2010 3:31 pm

Did you tune the camshaft in?? If not, that could be hurting you as well.

r/tguy02 · Post by **r/tguy02** » Sat May 29, 2010 3:32 pm

thats what i was thinking

Haganracing · Post by **Haganracing** » Sat May 29, 2010 3:34 pm

Yeah, because just installing a camshaft doesn't mean you got horsepower.. you have to dial it in as well.

The 17inch wheels might not be helping either.

Also with it being an MTX, we don't know where you are shifting or how well you drive. Driver mod is a huge difference.

Post up your slip so we can see whats up and try to point you in the right direction.

Mat00ES · Post by **Mat00ES** » Sat May 29, 2010 3:41 pm

In the words of Vin Diesel "Granny shiftin' not double clutchin' like you should." That right there is your issue.

2k1MotorSport · Post by **2k1MotorSport** » Sat May 29, 2010 3:53 pm

Well wouldn't the NGC PCM balance the mods back out, which would make all the mods null? You should at least have an R/T PCM

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat May 29, 2010 3:53 pm

Meh, I doubt the cam is going to affect it that drastically. The 400 is designed as a drop in camshaft. Using the stock cam gear is still going to give you the advertised gains, not make less power. Moving the power band, is only going to help if the engine is utilized in that power band. Depending on the FD gearing, moving it the wrong way, could hamper things. Installing it straight up should still give some gain. Only until you get to the Crane 14, do you have some valve overlap at TDC to play with.

I'm not sure how much the .5 less C.R. is playing into this either.

Edit:

2k1MotorSport wrote:Well wouldn't the NGC PCM balance the mods back out. You should at least have an R/T PCM

As for the cam, it can't do much about the added duration/lift. It can't change the physics of the IM either. It can only keep the A/F ratio in check. Given that all the inputs are still in the allowed parameters, it should in theory, make better power than a non NGC pcm on the same motor. (If the crank signals were compatible)

An R/T pcm would prolly help a little tho.

Edit again:
I would go with 14" steelies, and P195/60R14's, or shorter. It will help get your rpm's a bit higher. Might get you a little closer the rpm power range, that is now a bit higher than what it used to be.

FAC3L3SS · Post by **FAC3L3SS** » Sat May 29, 2010 4:19 pm

Ya'll needa quit quotin' "Vin Diesel."

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat May 29, 2010 4:23 pm

But, but, Doood, oily 'Identification Numbers adds stupid mad powah!

I was thinking the same, but bit my tongue.

OB · Post by OB » Sat May 29, 2010 4:55 pm

I'd say with an RT PCM, or better yet, a standalone, and some smaller wheels, you will see a huge difference. 17's aren't that big, but then again, if yours are cheap, they're probably 20+ lbs.

Also, I bet a lot of it has to do with driver error. A few weeks after I bought my car I took it out to Infineon and ran high 16's, with a K&N CAI and with my spare tire out. I was by no means a speed shifter extraordinaire, either.

silverneontuner · Post by **silverneontuner** » Sat May 29, 2010 5:24 pm

im at the 9.8:1 compression its a complete R/T swap

r/tguy02 · Post by **r/tguy02** » Sat May 29, 2010 5:27 pm

^ what about the cam timing?

OB · Post by OB » Sat May 29, 2010 5:30 pm

Cam timing isn't really something that needs to be messed with on an otherwise stock engine. Big misconception. A hotter cam means more airflow, which means more fuel is needed, and spark timing could use some adjustments as well to make the most of it. Valve or cam timing is more of a final adjustment to a race engine.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat May 29, 2010 6:34 pm

OB wrote:A hotter cam means more airflow, which means more fuel is needed, and spark timing could use some adjustments as well to make the most of it.

x2

An R/T pcm, will give you more available spark advance, and prolly more fuel at the MTV opening points, and possibly across the board, But my experince is the ('02) R/T pcm gives a noticeable kick at 4900 rpm. I do not have the Mag. IM installed yet, so it is not that.

An R/T pcm might help it pull better at the top end, which would help your times some, and the speed.

Of course stand alone will give you more control, but it would need dialed in.

But you have to determine if it is worth the $ for a few tenths. More so with an R/T pcm. (unless you can score one cheap: The only reason I have one.)

Thanks for moving this, OB. I was waiting to see which direction it was headed. Kind of split between engine and drag racing...

silverneontuner · Post by **silverneontuner** » Sat May 29, 2010 6:57 pm

the wheels are motegi sp5's not cheap ones. regardless i should have ran a better time.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat May 29, 2010 7:11 pm

What is the tire size?

silverneontuner · Post by **silverneontuner** » Sat May 29, 2010 7:33 pm

205 40 17

DR. GONZO · Post by **DR. GONZO** » Sat May 29, 2010 7:42 pm

where is the time slip??????

Post by **racer12306** » Sat May 29, 2010 7:53 pm

My opinion: The driver mod is needed in the worst way.

Also, what elevation are we talking about.

I ran 16.11 stock.

silverneontuner · Post by **silverneontuner** » Sat May 29, 2010 8:04 pm

time slip is in my car. what do you mean driver mod??. i need more practice? lol

Post by **racer12306** » Sat May 29, 2010 8:06 pm

Yes, you definitely need more practice.

A bad driver should be running upper 16s in a MTX neon.

You didn't answer my question, what is your elevation?

silverneontuner · Post by **silverneontuner** » Sat May 29, 2010 8:50 pm

221.9 m (728 ft)

Post by **racer12306** » Sat May 29, 2010 9:03 pm

Yeah, you should be in the low 16s.