$400 for less than a tenth of a second!

timk225 · Post by **timk225** » Thu May 09, 2013 11:34 pm

I'm pissed. Steamed. Aggravated. I haven't been this jacked off since Obama got re-elected.

I took my 5 SXT ATX to the dragstrip today for a nice weather test-n-tune session. Since I ran it DEAD STOCK, I have added:

1. K&N Filter - free, I already had it, 4" diameter by about 8 inch long filter element.
2. removed intake resonator - free.
3. Installed Walker Quietflow 3 #21290 DOHC style dual outlet muffler - $110 with clamps and paying a friend to help.
4. Bought a Pacesetter header for $120, and a Magnaflow 2-1/2" cat for $85, some clamps, exhaust gasket, female ball end adapter, about $25 more there total, and paying a muffler shop $65 to attach the cat to the stock 2" tailpipe.

The car ran a best of 17.80 @ 76.18 DEAD STOCK.

Today's first run was a rip snortin' 17.81 @ 76.6! WTFOMFG!!! The car had an hour to cool off before the run. A second run 15 minutes later (they ran street class twice in a row) got a 17.95 @ 76.3 on a now hot motor.

3 more runs over the next 3 hours gave me a 17.73 @ 77.03, 17.71 @ 77.12, and 17.72 @ 77.11 .

What in the how in the hell? Holy bajeezus and staddaboochie!

I wasn't expecting 16 second times for the upgrades I did, but this is absolutely ridiculous for the work that was done! 17.4's @ 78 or 79 would have been nice!

Taking the most optimistic numbers, 2970 pounds rolling down the track at 77 mph, gives me 105 wheel HP compared to the 102 of dead stock, and I made sure to match the car's fuel load and weight to the numbers from the dead stock runs, for accurate comparison.

The car still has the P2096 code showing from a leak in the header ball coupling affecting the rear O2 sensor, but that doesn't affect the fuel / air ratio.

What's the explanation for this inexplicable lack of improvement?

For all runs, both stock and modified, I leave the shifter in "3", and 1-2 shifts are at 6300 rpm and 2-3 shifts are at 6100 rpm. I cross the finish line right around 4500 rpm in 3rd gear.

trojmn · Post by **trojmn** » Thu May 09, 2013 11:41 pm

17.73 @ 77.03, 17.71 @ 77.12, and 17.72 @ 77.11 .

you'll win the brackets like that.

Post by **occasional demons** » Fri May 10, 2013 1:19 am

Lolz, just proves how efficient the stock intake and exhaust are for a stock engine.

Just because an air filter might outflow the oem paper one, doesn't mean the actual amount of air the engine is using is going to increase, just because you put a better filter on.
If example, the paper filter flows 500 CFM, and the engine only uses 390 CFM, how will a better flowing filter improve anything?

P.S. Jacked up might be a better term.

Neon4Life · Post by **Neon4Life** » Fri May 10, 2013 6:18 am

Lol. Them times seem about right, those little mods don't really help any and being that it's a ATX doesn't help it much either.

What would help more is a MTX swap.

timk225 · Post by **timk225** » Fri May 10, 2013 7:02 am

Neon4Life: "Those", not "Them".

The mods I made are the common hot rodding stage 1 mods, and several Neon articles I have read on Neon sites and Allpar all say the same thing. Use a K&N filter, header, exhaust, this muffler, etc, and You'll gain X horsepower.

I guess I just proved them all wrong.

I knew things weren't looking good a few days ago, when after the header installation and PCM reset, I only got to 108 in my top end speed run on the same piece of road where the totally stock car hit 109.

So what does this mean? More mods? About all that's left to do is a Magnum head swap and maybe a mild cam, and I'm not sure I'm prepared to do all that work and spend all that money to have only another 0.1 second gain.

FormerlyREDRT_98 · Post by **FormerlyREDRT_98** » Fri May 10, 2013 7:16 am

What kind of reaction times were you getting? 60ft times? How were you launching the car?

ThatKevin · Post by **ThatKevin** » Fri May 10, 2013 7:18 am

timk225 wrote:
So what does this mean? More mods? About all that's left to do is a Magnum head swap and maybe a mild cam, and I'm not sure I'm prepared to do all that work and spend all that money to have only another 0.1 second gain.

TURBO.

timk225 · Post by **timk225** » Fri May 10, 2013 8:03 am

My reaction times for 5 runs were .037, .071, -.023, .036, and .201. 60 foots were 2.61, 2.64, 2.58, 2.56, and 2.56 .

On the starting line I shallow stage it and WAP the gas pedal to the floor from idle. For the 3rd, 4th, and 5th runs I loaded the converter slightly, to maybe 1000-1200 rpm, and then hit it on the bottom yellow light.

I forgot to mention one thing:

2 days ago, I was in my local supermarket's free library (the magazine rack, free to ME!) reading through some new car magazines, and one had a bunch of road tests on new cars. A '13 Toyota Prius ran 17.6 @ 78. Even after mods, my Neon at 17.7 @ 77 is slower then a PRIUS!!! A FRICKIN' PRIUS!!!!!! AAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! The agony.

Hudson_Neon · Post by **Hudson_Neon** » Fri May 10, 2013 10:33 am

JeffM · Post by **JeffM** » Fri May 10, 2013 11:19 am

Well...I mean you really shouldn't expect much. You have a 4-speed automatic tied to a base 2.0l engine. You increased input and output flow, but haven't done anything to the engine for it to utilize that flow. It's fairly well known on here now that intake/exhaust is a very minimal performance gain, and only really start to show numbers when your engine can use them.

timk225 · Post by **timk225** » Fri May 10, 2013 12:14 pm

NOW someone tells me........

JeffM · Post by **JeffM** » Fri May 10, 2013 12:30 pm

Think of it this way. You've done the essentials, and now are ready to delve into more. For $400 you have an exhaust and intake that will continue to benefit you as you move forward.

Did you remove any weight from the car before running?

timk225 · Post by **timk225** » Fri May 10, 2013 2:54 pm

I made it a point to have the car at the same weight, 2970 pounds with me and fuel and empty trunk, as the first time running it stock. I'm real hardcore about that level of detail.

Sounds like I need a Magnum head and a Crane 12 or Comp 200 cam in this thing to make it run faster. But, what if I spend the money, port and prep the head, install it all, then it only gains another tenth? Do you have any idea of how pissed I'll be?

trojmn · Post by **trojmn** » Fri May 10, 2013 3:25 pm

if your intent on staying ATX... you are very consistant... i would look into changing the final drive before any hard parts on the engine.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showt ... quot/page4

Haganracing · Post by **Haganracing** » Mon May 13, 2013 10:54 am

Do a manual transmission swap, best mod for that motor.

r/tguy02 · Post by **r/tguy02** » Mon May 13, 2013 1:34 pm

trojmn wrote:
17.73 @ 77.03, 17.71 @ 77.12, and 17.72 @ 77.11 .
you'll win the brackets like that.

i was thinking this same exact thing. man you would eat people up in a bracket race and boy would they be mad

i agree, MTX swap would be your best gain, 3.94 final drive would be best.

Barry McCockener · Post by **Barry McCockener** » Fri May 17, 2013 9:25 pm

NGC ATX FTL lol. At least I got a few sub 10 second 0-60 in my old '00 ATX.

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Sat May 18, 2013 9:28 am

I definitely mentioned a power robbing ATX to you at one point. If you wanted to get into bracket racing I would keep it like it is. For the least work/reward I'd get nitrous on that thing. Get a progressive controller, if you run a 50 shot start it at 50%at 2500, or just above where your converter stalls at a dead stop and have it at 100% at 3500. If you want a bigger shot, ramp it slower.

How you were launching for the faster runs is called flashing the converter, and lots of people do it.

Besides the trans being 110lbs heavier than a Mtx, they dyno about 15hp less. And 2970 seems like its really heavy for a 2gn. An MTX swap would be a great help for you.

MyNeonSaysHi · Post by **MyNeonSaysHi** » Sat May 18, 2013 11:45 am

The car still has the P2096 code showing from a leak in the header ball coupling affecting the rear O2 sensor, but that doesn't affect the fuel / air ratio.

How bad is said leak? Not sure if that code will alter the cars performance in some shape or form?
I agree on the bracket racing comments, those are very consistent times. Plus you really don't have to worry about breaking anything

I would honestly stop throwing money at your ECO NGC automatic Neon IMO.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sat May 18, 2013 2:38 pm

timk225 wrote:I'm pissed. Steamed. Aggravated. I haven't been this jacked off since Obama got re-elected.

I took my 5 SXT ATX to the dragstrip today for a nice weather test-n-tune session. Since I ran it DEAD STOCK, I have added:

1. K&N Filter - free, I already had it, 4" diameter by about 8 inch long filter element.
2. removed intake resonator - free.
3. Installed Walker Quietflow 3 #21290 DOHC style dual outlet muffler - $110 with clamps and paying a friend to help.
4. Bought a Pacesetter header for $120, and a Magnaflow 2-1/2" cat for $85, some clamps, exhaust gasket, female ball end adapter, about $25 more there total, and paying a muffler shop $65 to attach the cat to the stock 2" tailpipe.

The car ran a best of 17.80 @ 76.18 DEAD STOCK.

Today's first run was a rip snortin' 17.81 @ 76.6! WTFOMFG!!! The car had an hour to cool off before the run. A second run 15 minutes later (they ran street class twice in a row) got a 17.95 @ 76.3 on a now hot motor.

3 more runs over the next 3 hours gave me a 17.73 @ 77.03, 17.71 @ 77.12, and 17.72 @ 77.11 .

What in the how in the hell? Holy bajeezus and staddaboochie!

I wasn't expecting 16 second times for the upgrades I did, but this is absolutely ridiculous for the work that was done! 17.4's @ 78 or 79 would have been nice!

Taking the most optimistic numbers, 2970 pounds rolling down the track at 77 mph, gives me 105 wheel HP compared to the 102 of dead stock, and I made sure to match the car's fuel load and weight to the numbers from the dead stock runs, for accurate comparison.

The car still has the P2096 code showing from a leak in the header ball coupling affecting the rear O2 sensor, but that doesn't affect the fuel / air ratio.

What's the explanation for this inexplicable lack of improvement?

For all runs, both stock and modified, I leave the shifter in "3", and 1-2 shifts are at 6300 rpm and 2-3 shifts are at 6100 rpm. I cross the finish line right around 4500 rpm in 3rd gear.

This is a 2005 Neon, no ?

The 'NGC' cars ( as Hudson suggested ) are more difficult, to get performance improvements out of.... Especially if you have the ATX.

- Nick

Fuzzyneon · Post by **Fuzzyneon** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:11 pm

mtx swap there arnt many if nay 4 speed autos making decent power (3 speeds are were its at for turbo builds seems like) for 400 bucks get all the mtx parts and i bet you will be at 16 or less

FAC3L3SS · Post by **FAC3L3SS** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:19 pm

timk225 wrote:NOW someone tells me........

If you're so "detail oriented" as well, wouldn't you know these "gains" from extensive research and reviews?

2GN.ORG

$400 for less than a tenth of a second!

$400 for less than a tenth of a second!

Re: $400 for less than a tenth of a second!