Mox's Snap Oversteer

Have some questions about AutoX or Rally racing, like what types of tires are good or where to start for suspension, ect... ask them here.
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MoxHair
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Post by MoxHair » Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:46 am

ragek23 wrote:how did you measure up with the other STI and EVO drivers?
I was second. An 04 STi was ahead of me, but he's been the STU class champion for 4 years in a row and competes nationally.
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Post by MoxHair » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:04 pm

August 16th, 2009. Lehigh Acres, Florida. Points Event Number 7

It really is amazing how much actually goes through your mind and how slow things develop when you're sliding sideways. I experienced this twice today. Of all the things I think about when I start to spin the most important, and the one I remember the most after everything is over, is the simplest. "Breathe." Breathing allows you to stay calm and to helps you to react. After I tell myself to breathe everything becomes easier. A million things go through my mind after that. Turn into the spin, down shift, power it around, make it memorable.

As I said I spun twice today. The first was a very basic spin caused by severe Snap Oversteer As I entered the final slalom on the course. The Evo X is setup to oversteer and to kick the rear out just a bit due to the Active Yaw Control system. Most AWD cars Understeer naturally. The Evo is like no other AWD car I've pushed at the limit. I slid through a cone gate hitting the cones with the side of my car, right smack dab in the middle of the passenger side doors. Sliding sideways into the gate the other thing to go through my head after I reminded myself to breathe was "Make it Memorable." As I turned into the spin I downshifted into first gear and put my foot to the floor. I laid down 4 dark black makes onto the concrete runway.

The Second Spin was far more scary. Again coming out of the last slalom right before the finish line the car started to kick out hard. When I turned for the last slalom cone I realized I was going to be too wide and too sideways to get through the finishing gate. I put my foot to the floor and turn the wheel to the right hard. I clipped the finish cone with my driver's side door but that wasn't the only bad news. Because I had powered through the gate while turning right hard I needed to straighted out in the slow down area. I eased off the gas and turned left slightly. Again the car decided to Snap to the left and again I'm sliding into a spin with no control.

Like I said everything slows down in a spin. I saw my time come up on the timing board. 74... something, I lost view of it and saw the pits, then the scary part. The shadow of the 10 ft chain link fence topped with barbed wire. That's right I'm sliding right towards that fence. All I can think about is a million scratches in my brand new EVO and how I didn't want to be that douche that hits the fence. I needed to slow myself down and try to avoid hitting the fence. I downshifted into first, hit the brakes and turned the wheel to the right (away from the spin) to try to get the car to stop rotating. I hit the dirt before the fence and the cloud of dust enveloped the car. I rolled onto the throttle again trying to slow the car's slide. I closed my eyes and waited for the crash.

I stopped.. Completely shocked I didn't hear the sound of metal on metal I turned to look at the fence. Two inches separated to fence from my side view mirror. Two inches separated myself from being the dude with the spectacular spin from the douche who wrecked his brand new Evo. Two Fucking Inches. This Close (pretend you can see me holding my thumb and index finger two inches apart.) I hit the gas flicked the wheel to the left and did a 180. I crab walked the car for the next 30 yards or so through the rest of the slow down area. I pulled back into line. Got out of the car and squatted next to it and put my head in my hands. Club members from all over the pits started walking towards me. I couldn't do anything but laugh. I was shaking and really couldn't hear anything anyone was saying. I had dirt caked into the wheels on the passenger side. "Holy Shit that was close."

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Last edited by MoxHair on Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by TheRandom1 » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:12 pm

No pics of you in the dirt? Fail...
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Danteneon wrote:You doing this swap with your tech level is like asking a squirrel to land a 747.

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Post by MoxHair » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:14 pm

The second picture is the start of it. Noone had any pictures of it. According to my girlfriend everyone stopped to see if I was going to run into the fence or anything else.
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Post by TheRandom1 » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:16 pm

And not even a pic of your black marks or the fence with your marks heading towards it, nothing. You fail, sir! :lol:
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Danteneon wrote:You doing this swap with your tech level is like asking a squirrel to land a 747.

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Post by MoxHair » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:19 pm

Yes, That is where I failed. I was in a rush to leave the airstrip, because it was 95 degrees, humid and I'm sunburnt, and I forgot to run out there and get pictures. I kicked myself about it when I got to Panera Bread.

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/7793227-post5648.html
my friend's reaction to my spins. lol
Last edited by MoxHair on Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by TheRandom1 » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:25 pm

You should have gone back for them...
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Danteneon wrote:You doing this swap with your tech level is like asking a squirrel to land a 747.

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Post by MoxHair » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:27 pm

its a military/goverment owned facility after we leave for the day you cannot go on the property.
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Post by TheRandom1 » Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:29 pm

That wouldn't have stopped them in Fast and Furious...
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Danteneon wrote:You doing this swap with your tech level is like asking a squirrel to land a 747.

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Post by bone-yard-racing » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:35 pm

Easy seabiscuit :lol:
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Post by Nutmeg » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:01 am

Great thread, good reading. Makes me want to get my car out soon.

Side note, you listen to Cage the Elephant? I'm going to see them tomorrow night; they're playing with Manchester Orchestra and Silversun Pickups.
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Post by 91RSImpulse » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:19 pm

I told you that AWD was a different beast!!! LOL... It can be your friend or foe... I do not remember the fence being that close to the cones, That must have been one hell of a spin you had...

you had better get your oversteer issues handled now before you do a track day at Sebring... the back corner off of the front stretch will eat your car up and spit it out...

Will the Yaw control let you set the differential bias like the DCCD on a STi???

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Post by MoxHair » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:24 pm

Nutmeg wrote:Great thread, good reading. Makes me want to get my car out soon.

Side note, you listen to Cage the Elephant? I'm going to see them tomorrow night; they're playing with Manchester Orchestra and Silversun Pickups.
Thanks

Yes I'm a CTE fan I bought their album when it was first release in the UK. Paid like 8 british pounds for it. I'm not so much a fan of M.O. or the Pickups. I'll listen to their stuff but I won't go out of my way for it. I really wish the Arctic Monkeys would come to Florida.
91RSImpulse wrote:I told you that AWD was a different beast!!! LOL... It can be your friend or foe... I do not remember the fence being that close to the cones, That must have been one hell of a spin you had...

you had better get your oversteer issues handled now before you do a track day at Sebring... the back corner off of the front stretch will eat your car up and spit it out...

Will the Yaw control let you set the differential bias like the DCCD on a STi???
The fence isn't all that close to the finish line, its just I slid that far. I really think new tires will stop the oversteering problem

Active Yaw control isn't an adjustable diff. Here's the definition from wiki

"Active yaw control is based on a computer-controlled rear differential which can actively split torque based on input from various accelerometers in the vehicle measuring longitudinal and lateral g forces, steering, brakes and throttle position.[2] Where ABS brakes are fitted they too are included in the input parameters. It accomplishes this via two hydraulic clutches which can limit torque on individual axles. This system should not be confused with stability control systems which utilize the braking system of a vehicle by individually braking certain wheels to rotate and slow the car (such as Electronic Brakeforce Distribution). AYC is a performance-oriented system which aims to increase cornering speeds."
Last edited by MoxHair on Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by TheRandom1 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:25 pm

It's much too warm for them down there.
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Post by 91RSImpulse » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:57 pm

What tires are you running right now? do you know if the EVO has a rear wheel drive based All Wheel Drive system, or is it like the Subaru where it is a Front wheel Drive based All wheel Drive system???

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Post by MoxHair » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:39 pm

I'm running the stock Yokohamas. They suck.

The EVO uses a FWD based system.

I'm going to upgrade wheels and tires soon. 18x9.5 rims with a 265/35 tire. I know which wheels I'm getting up the tire choice is still up in the air.
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Post by 91RSImpulse » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:35 pm

that is right, it is a transverse mounted motor with a transfer case... Some Yokohamas are not too bad, I have heard that the stock Evo tires are not soo good...

So when are you planning on the new wheels and tires?? are you planning on coilovers??? get those wheels and get the stance just right; you will have a killer looking car...

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Post by catalyst » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:35 am

I enjoy this thread, keep posting. My father-in-law and I are going to start racing soon, maybe rally, baja or asphalt. Not sure. We are gonna get a rex probly.

I went to some events in Monterey CA, at Laguna Seca with trackmasters, and one guy had an EVOX(said he was their "public tester", or some tuner's, it was just before they released) he ran with 285/18 all around, said "this car was made for asphalt"

Lots of fun, one '05 ACR there, loved it, no interior, no add on's, just fun.

Keep up the "blog", it may help make up our mind :thumbup:
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Post by MoxHair » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:47 pm

The next event isn't until October 3rd. I'm getting kinda antsy. I want to order the new rims and tires but I also have to pay for my Buffalo trip. I can afford to get both, but I'd rather keep extra money in my account as you never knew what is going to happen in life.

It's pouring outside, I don't even want to drive in this kind of weather. Yes it's that bad. The lake across from my condo is at least 10 feet higher than it normally is. Gotta love the raining season in Florida. I did run down to my Mail Box and look what finally showed up for me.

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Boom! lol

You know you want one.
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Post by INVUJerry » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:18 pm

I sort of do, however, it's hard to get "snap oversteer" in a straight line.
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Post by v95 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:56 pm

invujerry wrote:I sort of do, however, it's hard to get "snap oversteer" in a straight line.
yeah but i'll take one where do you get them
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Post by MoxHair » Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:48 pm

There is usually one thing that stands out to me when I'm looking at someones car. This one thing tells me just how serious someone is about their car. It can tell me if the person is just interested in a daily commuter, on a budget, in to straight line acceleration, or wants the most performance out of their vehicle. I've said that this one thing is the most important thing on a vehicle. I'm sure some of you that know me know what thing I'm talking about is.

Tires.

I normally try to stay away from tire discussions 'cause words like "Nexen" "Riken" "Nankang" "Ling Long" etc drive me insane. When these words are spoken/typed my brain basically goes in jerk mode as I have nothing nice to say about garbage tires. Nothing like ruining the handling, traction, and overall driving experience than putting a completely garbage set of tires on a decent car. Any time I see a sporty car with a set of (Insert Cheap-o shitty tires here) my skin crawls.

I buy tires quite often and over the past month or so I've been researching tires for my EVO. Over the past month I've read hundreds of reviews of the newest performance tires that have come out since I bought my last set of Dunlops. During this time period I've come to one conclusion: Opinions on tires are completely relative and usually completely crap.

I've purchased 3 sets of tires this year, all before the month of June. All were Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec. I did my research on these tires and were probably the best street tire for the money for autocross/daily driving use. But since I've purchased the last set a huge surge of extreme performance tires have hit the market.

Nitto NT05
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Bridgestone RE-11
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Yokohama AD08
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Hankook RS-3
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Kumho XS
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I didn't want to just buy the Dunlops again when one of these new tires could be a lot better.

My frustration with my research grew with each review. I believe that tire opinions are the most relative opinion I've ever had to wade through. A sea of bullshit and useless information. Most people who buy performance tires have never driven on a performance tire before. So their reviews are always "OMG!! This is the greatest Tire ever!!!1!" You see, if all you've driven on is basic all-season tires and you switch to a marginally decent performance tire you're going to see a huge increase in performance, grip, handling, etc.

It's like dating nothing but fat, ugly, redneck, white trash, girls and then a normal girl shows some interest you're going to be amazed at the difference in quality.

Yes I just compared junk tires to fat, ugly, redneck, white trash, girls.

After a month of research I decided to just stick my fingers in my ears and buy a set of Kumho's XS model tires. I'll form my own opinion on this set and if I don't like 'em I'll buy different set in a couple months. Maybe I'll like 'em maybe They're junk. But then again my opinion is completely relative and probably crap.
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Post by bone-yard-racing » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:12 pm

The XS is probably the best non-fake-rcomp you can buy. The R1R is about as soft as an A3 and very touchy when it comes to temperature. The new crop of street tires have become too fast for their own good
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Post by LowNSlow » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:21 pm

Let me know how you like those tires.... they look like a good tire.

I usually buy cheap tires for my cars...but none of em ever handled worth a damn.


Definitely want a good tire for my S.
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Post by MoxHair » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:47 pm

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forgot to post pictures of my Kumho's

265/35ZR18.

Wheels will be here Monday.
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Post by bone-yard-racing » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:10 pm

Let us know Im still on the fence between these or real rcomps for Miley
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Post by MoxHair » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:36 pm

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....yep, I spun out again. More info on today's event to come. I have a pretty bad headache and don't really feel like typing at the moment.
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Post by rushtom2 » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:08 am

Your desriptions are awesome. Makes me feel like I was in the car when your talking. Super interesting to read

If you were japanese you could use the back end comming out to your advantage:)
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Post by neonpla » Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:21 pm

Mox, Thanks for the info... I'm currently look at the Star Specs to replace my azenis this spring.
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Post by TheRandom1 » Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:00 pm

I see spun out, don't see details...?
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