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My mind likes to wander while reading part mags and I got curious? How diffrent is the intake mani mount on the 4g63 vs the neon head?

a better question is do the coolant passages line-up, etc. they don't which is why the 2 heads don't interchange.

I dont want the 4g head. Just need to know if the mani flange is diffent

Having owned two DSM's, I can say yes they are different.

here is one of the few 4g63 heads ive done............ extremely different from the neon head. its injectors sit in the head not in the intake manifold for starters and the 4g63 head has huge rectangle intake ports that dwarf the sohc neon ports............

^

nice job

Yeah some of the biggest un-ported ports I've ever seen are on 4G61 and 4G63 heads. That's one of their strongpoints as a platform.

Arro wrote:Yeah some of the biggest un-ported ports I've ever seen are on 4G61 and 4G63 heads. That's one of their strongpoints as a platform.

yeah same with the exhaust

On the topic of DSM's, are they really all that unreliable? I know someone on another forums that runs high 12's/low 13's on 19 PSI daily.

i personally think that the 4g63 in stock form is the most durable 4 cylinder out there. in raced out form also....... and another badass 4 cylinder is the ecto engines they are making 1400+ hp with, running 60 psi of boost and still runnning coolant around the cylinders in there open deck blocks.

all_motor_mike wrote:

Arro wrote:Yeah some of the biggest un-ported ports I've ever seen are on 4G61 and 4G63 heads. That's one of their strongpoints as a platform.

yeah same with the exhaust

Keep in mind, it was turbocharged from the factory.

all_motor_mike wrote:i personally think that the 4g63 in stock form is the most durable 4 cylinder out there. in raced out form also....... and another badass 4 cylinder is the ecto engines they are making 1400+ hp with, running 60 psi of boost and still runnning coolant around the cylinders in there open deck blocks.

Well... not exactly. It puts out a lot of power, but I wouldn't call it the beefiest 4 cyllinder out there. For that matter, it had its problems in the 2G versions, namely with crankwalk, and even without that, it was average in terms of durability. The earlier Chrysler SOHC turbo engines were much stronger in comparison... even the ones with cast rods (some had forged rods).

Some of the strongest 4 cyllinder engines are Hondas, I hate to admit it, WITH ONE EXCEPTION: The Nissan FJ20E and FJ20ET engine.

This was a twincam 2.0L, with ports at least as big as 4G63, chain-driven camshafts, and main bearings the size normally associated with Chevy 350's (actually, they are taken from the 280ZX L28, which is a 2.8L SOHC i-6, also a really beefy engine).

The FJ24 was a careurated version, designed for rally racing with Nissan's "240RS", which would later be the chassis used for the R32 Skyline. By the time of the R32, the engine was underbored to two liters, and called the FJ20E ("E" for "electronic fuel injection"). A turbo version was also produced, the FJ20ET, and was not only used in the Skyline, but in the S12 chassis as well.

The FJ20ET longblock is capable of supporting ~400hp w/ stock internals, as has been proven by numerous Japanese and Australian projects.

FJ20ET:


Skyline GT-R:


A bit more about the FJ:
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_2930/article.html

well if what u say is in fact true then u have me there......... i dont know much about those olders engines that u were talking about i just know the 4g63 can handle over 500 whp on the stock bottom ends.

all_motor_mike wrote:well if what u say is in fact true then u have me there......... i dont know much about those olders engines that u were talking about i just know the 4g63 can handle over 500 whp on the stock bottom ends.

i had heard the same problems regarding earlier 4g63 engines. they apparently also had to have webbing added as reinforcement to limit block flexing or some such mess. seems that they've worked the issues out in the evo generation motors though as i see them regularly putting down impressive numbers with only bolt-on upgrades.

all_motor_mike wrote:well if what u say is in fact true then u have me there......... i dont know much about those olders engines that u were talking about i just know the 4g63 can handle over 500 whp on the stock bottom ends.

Who told you that?

I spent a lot of time at Road Race Engineering with the owner, Mike W, and right now (and for some time now) they are one of the leaders in the nation for DSM tuning, right up there with Buschur and Extreme. The stock longblock can handle ~300. These cars get some knock, they don't tolerate even the slightest dip in fuel, or cheapo gas. A stock longblock boosting enough pressure to support even 350hp is going to see some knock, no matter how well tuned it is.

The reason why DSM guys stand by these cars is:

1. The engine comes turbocharged from the fatory, so there are a lot of Stage 1 items that make you go fast without modifying much at all (and that keeps you under the smog test radar, too).

2. No OBD anything. Hack away.

3. The chassis is relatively stiff, and handles well with very little added attention. The suspension aftermarket is well-covered.

4. Of course, these cars came in an AWD version. Enough said there.

5. Since there have been turbo versions since day one (unlike ours), the aftermarket support for these cars is huge.

6. They like the looks.

In the end it has little to do with engine dependability. Ask any 2G owner who has had crankwalk on a stock longblock, or a 1G owner who's thrown a rod out the side of his engine block because he saw some sudden massive knock.

Not trying to rant, just trying to set the record straight. There's many reasons why I got out of DSM's. Having to build a stout engine is one of them.

SGT BRAD wrote:i had heard the same problems regarding earlier 4g63 engines. they apparently also had to have webbing added as reinforcement to limit block flexing or some such mess. seems that they've worked the issues out in the evo generation motors though as i see them regularly putting down impressive numbers with only bolt-on upgrades.

The motors in the EVO I, II, and III are nearly identical, but after that, they changed. The engine is reversed in direction in Evo 4 and up, and the turbocharger, much like the SRT-4, spins "backwards" compared to industry standard. It's still called a "4G63", but it is not the same engine (especially the longblock) at all as the DSM or Evo I, II, and III. The Evo 4 and up engine, yes, is very stout, but completely redesigned from inside out.

If you want a stout engine platform in a US-market offering, get a 240SX, and turbocharge it. No OBDI or II, plenty of aftermarket, RWD, KA20E and KA20DE engines take well to b00st, and if that's not good enough, engine swaps to SR20DET and even the RB series inline-6 turbocharged engines from the later Skyline supercars have all been successfully swapped into them, so the path to do so is well paved for you.

The reason why I like the 2G Neon is it seems to handle as well as some RWD cars, and that impresses me. Plus I like to be different, and you all must admit, Neons aren't in the majority in the sport compact world.

Arro wrote: If you want a stout engine platform in a US-market offering, get a 240SX, and turbocharge it. No OBDI or II, plenty of aftermarket, RWD, KA20E and KA20DE engines take well to b00st, and if that's not good enough, engine swaps to SR20DET and even the RB series inline-6 turbocharged engines from the later Skyline supercars have all been successfully swapped into them, so the path to do so is well paved for you.

There is ZERO reason to put the SR or RB in that car. I have seen with my own eyes a stock KA24 240 motor with a large holset turbo, fuel upgrades, and ignition upgrades puttin just shy of 350 to the ground. The stock KA block is damn near bullet proof and if it DOES break you can get one for a song as everyone wants to put the SR motor in it.

i believe it was AMS that was doing testing on there kits when they first came out............. actually im pretty sure of it. it was they're biggest kit at the time and the turned the boost up to 29 psi i beleive with the kit on a 35r turbo and put down 535whp if i remember correctly. but then u said above alot of the issues have been worked out with the evo engines so maybe thats why.

MoparNeonMan wrote:There is ZERO reason to put the SR or RB in that car. I have seen with my own eyes a stock KA24 240 motor with a large holset turbo, fuel upgrades, and ignition upgrades puttin just shy of 350 to the ground. The stock KA block is damn near bullet proof and if it DOES break you can get one for a song as everyone wants to put the SR motor in it.

I know someone who was paid $150 to haul away 20 of them from a big SR swap shop. THe SOHC KA's.

As far as the Evo goes, just try to keep in mind that the original 4G63 and the later "Evo" 4G63 are completely different engines. I don't know why they named them the same.

and thats why i said this up above..............

all_motor_mike wrote: but then u said above alot of the issues have been worked out with the evo engines so maybe thats why.

ive seen ka24de's throw down 600+ whp......... built of course.

MoparNeonMan wrote:

Arro wrote: If you want a stout engine platform in a US-market offering, get a 240SX, and turbocharge it. No OBDI or II, plenty of aftermarket, RWD, KA20E and KA20DE engines take well to b00st, and if that's not good enough, engine swaps to SR20DET and even the RB series inline-6 turbocharged engines from the later Skyline supercars have all been successfully swapped into them, so the path to do so is well paved for you.

There is ZERO reason to put the SR or RB in that car. I have seen with my own eyes a stock KA24 240 motor with a large holset turbo, fuel upgrades, and ignition upgrades puttin just shy of 350 to the ground. The stock KA block is damn near bullet proof and if it DOES break you can get one for a song as everyone wants to put the SR motor in it.

A KA-T is rather nice when set up properly. My buddy with a S14 is building his block, hot tank, engine girdle, the whole nine yards and is looking to drive around with 450 under the hood on the HKS Standalone.

60trim wrote:

MoparNeonMan wrote:

Arro wrote: If you want a stout engine platform in a US-market offering, get a 240SX, and turbocharge it. No OBDI or II, plenty of aftermarket, RWD, KA20E and KA20DE engines take well to b00st, and if that's not good enough, engine swaps to SR20DET and even the RB series inline-6 turbocharged engines from the later Skyline supercars have all been successfully swapped into them, so the path to do so is well paved for you.

There is ZERO reason to put the SR or RB in that car. I have seen with my own eyes a stock KA24 240 motor with a large holset turbo, fuel upgrades, and ignition upgrades puttin just shy of 350 to the ground. The stock KA block is damn near bullet proof and if it DOES break you can get one for a song as everyone wants to put the SR motor in it.

A KA-T is rather nice when set up properly. My buddy with a S14 is building his block, hot tank, engine girdle, the whole nine yards and is looking to drive around with 450 under the hood on the HKS Standalone.

for the longest time i want to get ahold of an s13 hatch and boost it. u can make those things look good and go fast. now a days thers guys running low 9's in there ka-T powered 240's so that idea went bye bye.

I've been to every D1 Drift competition championship except last year's... they hold them in Irwindale, which isn't that far away. Anyways, last time I was there, someone was running in a KA24E-T (SOHC) and was doing quite well, hanging with the rest of the ~400hp SR monsters.

YEah, everybody and their brother now wants an S13 or S14.

Or a Corolla.

Kinda reminds me when every punk with an 80's or 90's Civic thought he was the shiznit... thankfully that trend of primered FWD hondas w/ flat black steel wheels on the front is all but gone.

And thankfully Neon still is very underdog, which is also very in-keeping with Dodge sport compacts and earlier turbocharged wonders.