Where do I start with this rebuild?

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yellowpatrol
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Where do I start with this rebuild?

Post by yellowpatrol » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:36 pm

I've never done anything like this before, but I'm trying to swap this SRT-4 engine into my SXT. For anyone who doesn't know, I got it off eBay, and returning it is not an option. I understand it's going to cost some money, but I don't know exactly how much. I'm not in too much of a hurry to get it done, but I am anxious. So far, I've stripped it down to the block and pistons. I don't really know what the next step is. Do I need to take it to a machine shop, and if so, what do I need to have done to it? If there's any more information I can provide that will help you answer me just let me know.

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Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

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all_motor_mike
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Post by all_motor_mike » Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:02 pm

wow seems like ur in a little over ur head but atleast u have an NGC car. well i would start by stripping the block all the way down. now are u doing a performance rebuild or oem rebuild? if u are doing an oem rebuild are u resuing the pistons and rods? what are ur plans for the engine pretty much and how much money are u wanting to spend?
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Post by yellowpatrol » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:50 am

Well I'm thinking I want to do a bit of an upgrade over stock, but it all depends on how much it will cost. If I had to guess I would say about $5,000 is all I want to put into this.
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Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

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Post by turbodudey » Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:52 am

yellowpatrol wrote:I would say about $5,000 is all I want to put into this.
$5k :shock: If you're gonna spend that much, you could completely rebuild everything and upgrade to forged internals and a big turbo.

A budget build would probably run you around $1500 or so. With $5k to spend you could pretty much go all out...

If you do everything yourself, that is. $5k could go away pretty quick if you were paying someone else to build it.
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all_motor_mike
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Post by all_motor_mike » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:12 pm

well buy the pistons and rods u are going to use, take them and and the block to a machine shop (one who is well know for doing good work preferably) and tell them to assemble it. that will probably include hot tanking the block, boring or honing it, and micing everything and then throwing it all together while checking main and rod bearing clearances. then all u have to do is get ur head ported by someone :P install u r head and tq it, get ur rockers and lifters (soak them in oil over night) installed and ur cams wether they be oem or aftermarket and tq them. put ur v/c on an tq it. oh and before u do all that u should proabbly finish the bottm end and side of the engine first. oil pump, rear timing cover, timing belt etc. balance shaft, chain, and tensioners. oil pick up tube, oil pan............ stuff like that. im sure i left stuff out so feel free everyone to correct me.
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Post by yellowpatrol » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:38 pm

turbodudey wrote:If you do everything yourself, that is. $5k could go away pretty quick if you were paying someone else to build it.
Okay, well that would be max, and like I said I have no idea how much someone would charge to do the hot tanking and boring stuff. I'd like to aim for somewhere in between the "budget build" and the 5k max.
all_motor_mike wrote:well buy the pistons and rods u are going to use, take them and and the block to a machine shop (one who is well know for doing good work preferably) and tell them to assemble it. that will probably include hot tanking the block, boring or honing it, and micing everything and then throwing it all together while checking main and rod bearing clearances. then all u have to do is get ur head ported by someone :P install u r head and tq it, get ur rockers and lifters (soak them in oil over night) installed and ur cams wether they be oem or aftermarket and tq them. put ur v/c on an tq it. oh and before u do all that u should proabbly finish the bottm end and side of the engine first. oil pump, rear timing cover, timing belt etc. balance shaft, chain, and tensioners. oil pick up tube, oil pan............ stuff like that. im sure i left stuff out so feel free everyone to correct me.
Ok, so I guess I'll start by taking the block in like you said. What pistons have you guys had good experiences with?

One of my other concerns is not knowing if everything else will work, such as the head / valves:
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the transmission:
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etc... I'd also like to get a better turbo, but there is so much debate over which is the best with our engines that I'm just too confused about which one I should get.
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Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

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Post by anomalous0 » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:58 pm

eek! head looks scary. Definitely have it sent to someone to get ported and new SS valves.
And I hear brian crower rods are the strongest on the market.
At least it's what darrel cox uses.
"If you haven't bled on it, it's not your car"

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Post by anomalous0 » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:57 pm

eek! head looks scary. Definitely have it sent to someone to get ported and new SS valves.
And I hear brian crower rods are the strongest on the market.
At least it's what darrel cox uses.
"If you haven't bled on it, it's not your car"

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Post by all_motor_mike » Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:08 pm

yeah ur gonna wanna get that head cleaned up before it goes on the motor.
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Post by lambostealth » Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:23 pm

Jesus, was that a flood damaged car??

If so, you might want to get the trans cleaned up and inspected as well, because the manny trannies have vents on them that allow heat to escape, and if that car was under water, you may be looking at lightly rusted internals.
And with that much rust on that input shaft, the main seal on that trans is sure to get chewed up within 10 miles.

You may be better off buying yourself a GOOD motor and trans off ebay for $4000, rather than dump $5000 in this motor/trans, although it most likely won't take that much to rebuild it all, it will be damn close.
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Post by yellowpatrol » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:18 pm

Yeah I don't think I'll be buying anything on eBay any time soon though... Look what happened last time. ^^^^

Edit: I was thinking about just getting a new tranny though. Where is a good place to get a performance transmission for a good price?
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Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

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Post by INVUJerry » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:46 pm

Well, you know, you could stick with your stock transmission (if you have an MTX). Get a LSD installed, and a good clutch and you're GTG.
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Post by yellowpatrol » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:24 am

By stock you mean SXT right?
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Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

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Post by kc2005ptgt » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:37 am

yellowpatrol wrote:By stock you mean SXT right?
Yeah, for the price of a new tranny, you could beef up yours. Get the OBX diff, high perf clutch, lightweight flywheel, beef up the axles, and you should be set!
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Post by yellowpatrol » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:27 pm

What about gear ratios and stuff?
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Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

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Post by SGT BRAD » Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:24 am

yellowpatrol wrote:What about gear ratios and stuff?
stock 3.55 is actually very good for a turbo car. many guys that have turboed r/t's with 3.94 trannies switch to the 3.55. longer ratios are better for f/i cars while us all motor guys need the close ratio boxes to keep things in the sweet spot.
ooh...there's a glimmer of the dream left!!!

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Post by KrackstaR » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:16 am

SGT BRAD wrote:
yellowpatrol wrote:What about gear ratios and stuff?
stock 3.55 is actually very good for a turbo car. many guys that have turboed r/t's with 3.94 trannies switch to the 3.55. longer ratios are better for f/i cars while us all motor guys need the close ratio boxes to keep things in the sweet spot.
:withstupid: thats what i have in there now.


Dude i didnt want to say it but i would hate to see you go tru spending more money and still not being happy, just sell the parts of the motor you have and with the money you have saved and what you collect from selling the parts that are in front of you , just buy a new motor, from a j-yard or something to that affect, cause for the cost of this motor and what your planning on spending to get it running you could buy JRM's entire car. :)
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Post by jphillips » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:33 am

I'm jelous bro! That looks like a hella fun project! I've built about 10 various V8's on stands for project cars over the years, but never a turbo motor, never a fuel injected motor....

You've got alot of work ahead of you for sure, but most of the fun is knowing that *you* did it. It's really not that difficult to rebuild a motor - it just takes alot of time if you've never done it before.

Crack the trans open yourself and visually inspect it. Worse case scenario is you'd have to use the SXT's tranny or replace the gear package in the SRT trans. I'm guessing you'd want to stick with the SRT trans if possible - the halfshafts are more equal length on it than the MTX SXT trans. I had a '95 corrado that was turbo'd with about 305whp and even with a Thorsen type diff, the enequal length halfshafts made it a handful in the twisties...

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Post by yellowpatrol » Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:33 pm

What I meant about the gear ratios was is the SRT transmission any different.
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Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

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Post by Acid_ » Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:21 am

wow man
listen to these guys and take that head and block to a shop after you strip it all down and get them cleaned up

if you have 5k to spend you might as well do it the right way the first time

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Post by blue demon02 » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:23 am

Ok, what I would do is do a OEM re-build. If you swap that motor in there with a big turbo and probely like 400WHP you will probely kill yourself. Do yourself a favor and keep the motor stock for now and just have fun with the 300WHP that the stock motor will hold up-to all day. And keep the SRT Trans unless its out of an 03. I paid a guy 150 bucks to over haul my SXT trans and install A LSD. Just don't go to one of those transmission shops. Other question is did you get the rest of the stuff you needed for this swap like the ECU, ignition the harness's, and the front hubs.

If your only looking to spend 5000 thene keep the motor stock there is no way you can pay a shop to do labor and upgrade the motor and do the swap for 5K. If you did all the work yourself then you could do it but don't try to do the motor yourself unless you got somone to help you that has done Neon motors before.
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Post by SGT BRAD » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:22 pm

vics done a couple of swaps. he outta know. :withstupid:
ooh...there's a glimmer of the dream left!!!

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Post by yellowpatrol » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:02 pm

:( Tranny is 03. What's the difference? I thought they were the same?
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Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

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Post by JRM » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:35 pm

03 doesn't have lsd..
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Post by yellowpatrol » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:26 pm

gotcha
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Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

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Post by blue demon02 » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:45 pm

In that case save yourself a lot of trouble keep the SXT transe.

I have seen a lot of mixed reviews about the OBX LSD but you might have good luck with it.

You did not say wether or not you got the ECU/Harness/Egnition.
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Post by yellowpatrol » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:59 pm

Yeah I got ecu and harness but the harness is chopped up so i already know i'll need a new one.
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Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

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Post by yellowpatrol » Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:39 am

Well the engine is at the shop now. I'm trying to decide which rebuild kit I should get from Modern Performance. They have 8.5:1 and 8.0:1 compression, both available with .020 overbore. Any input on that?
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Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

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Post by blue demon02 » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:37 pm

yellowpatrol wrote:Well the engine is at the shop now. I'm trying to decide which rebuild kit I should get from Modern Performance. They have 8.5:1 and 8.0:1 compression, both available with .020 overbore. Any input on that?
How much power are you looking to make?
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Post by yellowpatrol » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:29 pm

Well what are the differences between those four, besides the obvious?
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Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

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