YAY! Rod Knock....

This is the place to ask questions about your engine components like cams, valves, pistons… just anything that is generally "engine" specific. This also includes questions about exhaust systems such as exhaust manifolds, piping size, mufflers, ect...
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01NeonR/T
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YAY! Rod Knock....

Post by 01NeonR/T » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:10 am

Well driving back from the canyon earlier this evening, exactly as it sounds: dreaded Rod Knock. Good news is: I have a built Turbo motor waiting to go in. Bad news: it's going to take time and probably money to do it. Even worse news: My motor is a Magnum, meaning the ECU has advanced timing compared to a normal one. Therefore, it won't be a good combination with the lower compression pistons of the turbo motor. So my options are pretty bleak. But my options are: 1.Keep driving and hope it doesn't seize. 2.put the turbo block in and hope it doesn't detonate. 3.find a base engine and ecu to swap in there. All of this needs to be done soon, as I still need to pass smog for my damn modified exhaust ticket. Suggestions anyone?
Cars I've been through:
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo (still have it, non-running)
1994 Acura Integra (wrecked)
1994 Chrysler New Yorker (still have it, mom's now)
1990 Honda Civic AWD Wagon (stolen)
1998 Honda Civic LX (stolen)
1994 Nissan Pickup (bought from uncle, sold back to him)
2001 Dodge Neon R/T (wrecked)
1998 Lexus GS300 (current)
1999 BMW 528i Sport (current)

yellowpatrol
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Post by yellowpatrol » Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:54 am

Can't you just buy a computer for the turbo motor?
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Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

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MoparNeonMan
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Post by MoparNeonMan » Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:58 pm

MegaSquirt
me and my car have a give and take relationship

it gives me shite and i take it

gilly02le
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Post by gilly02le » Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:00 pm

:withstupid: M/S is the way to go Mang!
New Sig Time.

anomalous0
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Post by anomalous0 » Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:49 pm

he needs to pass smog.....
"If you haven't bled on it, it's not your car"

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INVUJerry
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Post by INVUJerry » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:24 pm

You can run the turbo block, with no boost, with your magnum ECU and you'll be fine.

You can even use any block you have, a base model block will work fine. YOu only need to worry about advanced timing with boost.
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01NeonR/T
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Post by 01NeonR/T » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:44 am

I was more worried about the lower compression wreaking havoc during smog, although that might be a moot issue when I think about it. Lower compression, same fuel, quicker spark = so-so combustion... First, I'm going to attempt to open her up and check out the crank and valvetrain armed with plastigage. See if everything is in order. Just to get the thing running, I may just get whatever new part I might need from the local autostoned, assuming they have it, and try getting it to run again. Until then, the car remains parked.

By the way, MS is the direction I was planning to take it.. once I could afford it... I need the car running as cheaply as possible. By cheaply I mean the less money out of my pocket the better, so if I have parts I can use at home instead of buying something else I'll do it.

Although being able to use the lower compression pistons sounds nice, I still would need to buy a new headgasket, meaning a good chunk of change. Are the R/T head gaskets and different from base SOHC's? I look at a "gasket kit" on eGay and it always says not for R/T or ACR models. Anybody make anything thicker than stock? I doubt I can just double up on the stock gasket... Well that question is more about something else I've been thinking about and doesn;t really pertain to the current problem...
Cars I've been through:
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo (still have it, non-running)
1994 Acura Integra (wrecked)
1994 Chrysler New Yorker (still have it, mom's now)
1990 Honda Civic AWD Wagon (stolen)
1998 Honda Civic LX (stolen)
1994 Nissan Pickup (bought from uncle, sold back to him)
2001 Dodge Neon R/T (wrecked)
1998 Lexus GS300 (current)
1999 BMW 528i Sport (current)

01NeonR/T
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Post by 01NeonR/T » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:35 am

Took it apart earlier today. Cylinder #3 bearing completely shot. Most likely from oil starvation. Crank doesn't seem to be damaged nor can any visible scarring on the cylinder walls be seen. Just to get the car smoggable, I'm going to throw in a fresh set of bearings and rod bolts, bring it into spec, and see if I can pass smog. Hopefully I can find my stock intake too :-P.
Cars I've been through:
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo (still have it, non-running)
1994 Acura Integra (wrecked)
1994 Chrysler New Yorker (still have it, mom's now)
1990 Honda Civic AWD Wagon (stolen)
1998 Honda Civic LX (stolen)
1994 Nissan Pickup (bought from uncle, sold back to him)
2001 Dodge Neon R/T (wrecked)
1998 Lexus GS300 (current)
1999 BMW 528i Sport (current)

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INVUJerry
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Post by INVUJerry » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:38 pm

With low compression, your car will just run slower, neons have passed tail pipe emissions with no cats before, so I'm sure you'll be alright.
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01NeonR/T
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Post by 01NeonR/T » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:00 pm

Really? Hmm. Well my current situation looks like this Jerry: I want to replace the bearings and rod bolts on the stock motor and run it again. My stock cat is broken where the cat meets the flange to the header. A big circular part right before the 02 sensor, it leaks and throws a code about the 02 sensor heater. I was either considering: buying KC's Cat and welding an extension pipe to fit, or re-welding the broken part of my stock cat. Sound doable?
Cars I've been through:
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo (still have it, non-running)
1994 Acura Integra (wrecked)
1994 Chrysler New Yorker (still have it, mom's now)
1990 Honda Civic AWD Wagon (stolen)
1998 Honda Civic LX (stolen)
1994 Nissan Pickup (bought from uncle, sold back to him)
2001 Dodge Neon R/T (wrecked)
1998 Lexus GS300 (current)
1999 BMW 528i Sport (current)

01NeonR/T
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Post by 01NeonR/T » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:21 am

Put together the engine earlier today. Wouldn't crank. I'm hoping it's because I didn't lube the bearings enough, because I couldn't turn the crank by hand I left it sitting and am going to try to attack it tomorrow.
Cars I've been through:
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo (still have it, non-running)
1994 Acura Integra (wrecked)
1994 Chrysler New Yorker (still have it, mom's now)
1990 Honda Civic AWD Wagon (stolen)
1998 Honda Civic LX (stolen)
1994 Nissan Pickup (bought from uncle, sold back to him)
2001 Dodge Neon R/T (wrecked)
1998 Lexus GS300 (current)
1999 BMW 528i Sport (current)

Kevin_GP
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Post by Kevin_GP » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:40 am

You won't have any problem running the magnum computer with boost as long as you know what you are doing...

01NeonR/T
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Post by 01NeonR/T » Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:28 pm

I;m not going to apply boost to it until later on. I was more worried about Magnum computer, lower compression pistons and no Boost.
Cars I've been through:
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo (still have it, non-running)
1994 Acura Integra (wrecked)
1994 Chrysler New Yorker (still have it, mom's now)
1990 Honda Civic AWD Wagon (stolen)
1998 Honda Civic LX (stolen)
1994 Nissan Pickup (bought from uncle, sold back to him)
2001 Dodge Neon R/T (wrecked)
1998 Lexus GS300 (current)
1999 BMW 528i Sport (current)

01NeonR/T
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Post by 01NeonR/T » Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:12 pm

OKay now I'm stumped. I plastigaged each bearing cap and it was within the spec listed in the Chilton's manual. Torqued it down to the spec listed, put Moly lube grease on the bearing mating surface, and it still won't crank.
Cars I've been through:
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo (still have it, non-running)
1994 Acura Integra (wrecked)
1994 Chrysler New Yorker (still have it, mom's now)
1990 Honda Civic AWD Wagon (stolen)
1998 Honda Civic LX (stolen)
1994 Nissan Pickup (bought from uncle, sold back to him)
2001 Dodge Neon R/T (wrecked)
1998 Lexus GS300 (current)
1999 BMW 528i Sport (current)

01NeonR/T
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Posts: 315
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:01 pm
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Post by 01NeonR/T » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:35 pm

I think I have figured it out. I can only get the damn thing to crank if I put the rod caps on LOOSE. But it still won't catch. You don't have to tell me twice not to run with loose rod caps, but that's beside the point. I think the bearings I was sent were too thick. I sent an e-mail to the guy I bought it from to see if he has anything a bit smaller (or oversize), I compared the stock ones to the bearings in the turbo engine I have and they are fairly identical. I think if all else fails I will try pilfering the bearings from the turbo engine and using those, and, assuming they work, replace them once I refresh the engine to put in.
Cars I've been through:
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo (still have it, non-running)
1994 Acura Integra (wrecked)
1994 Chrysler New Yorker (still have it, mom's now)
1990 Honda Civic AWD Wagon (stolen)
1998 Honda Civic LX (stolen)
1994 Nissan Pickup (bought from uncle, sold back to him)
2001 Dodge Neon R/T (wrecked)
1998 Lexus GS300 (current)
1999 BMW 528i Sport (current)

01NeonR/T
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Post by 01NeonR/T » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:18 pm

Does anybody happen to know what the bearing thickness' are suppossed to be? I can't get a straight answer from the people I bought it from, selling a brand called "ACL". I don't think they know, I called modern too, no help there. I was on hold for over 30 minutes from the dealer so I'll try back there later.
Cars I've been through:
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo (still have it, non-running)
1994 Acura Integra (wrecked)
1994 Chrysler New Yorker (still have it, mom's now)
1990 Honda Civic AWD Wagon (stolen)
1998 Honda Civic LX (stolen)
1994 Nissan Pickup (bought from uncle, sold back to him)
2001 Dodge Neon R/T (wrecked)
1998 Lexus GS300 (current)
1999 BMW 528i Sport (current)

Jamie
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Post by Jamie » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:10 pm

they should be "standard" size. i dont know exactly now. but clevite 77's are very good. i am running them in my engine as we speak. no issues. but to be sure take an old bering and on the back should be a stamp with either std or like .010 or something... if i remember correctly. i know my dakota had the sizes stamped on the back. i dont remember if the neon did... i had the machine shop fit the new berings after the they polished my crank... :lol:

yes it should free spin fairly easily.

good luck
Jamie
I need some quality entertainment...wheres the bar...

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01NeonR/T
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Post by 01NeonR/T » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:18 pm

For now I need to get the car running. With school and midterms coming up in some very difficult classes, I need to spend as little time on the car as I can to get it running. So I'll double check the bearings but will probably use the standard sized set in the Turbo motor and get new bearings for when that block goes in later this week, since I need to get the car smog checked and such soon. No time to pull the block to get the crank out to machine it either. There was very little damage done to the 3rd journal, but I already know I need to get it machined, but at this cannot afford it either money or time wise.
Cars I've been through:
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo (still have it, non-running)
1994 Acura Integra (wrecked)
1994 Chrysler New Yorker (still have it, mom's now)
1990 Honda Civic AWD Wagon (stolen)
1998 Honda Civic LX (stolen)
1994 Nissan Pickup (bought from uncle, sold back to him)
2001 Dodge Neon R/T (wrecked)
1998 Lexus GS300 (current)
1999 BMW 528i Sport (current)

jphillips
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Post by jphillips » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:41 pm

updates?
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if god didnt intend for us to eat cows they wouldnt be made of meat

01NeonR/T
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Post by 01NeonR/T » Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:13 pm

I've yet to try to use the other bearings. I'm at school right now and plan to try later on tonight and probably tomorrow too. So far I've got differing opinions. I know I shouldn't use different bearings from a different motor, but right now I am constrained by time. If I can get it to spin and run tonight, hopefully it will stay intact long enough to smog and drive for a little while. If not, then I may need to buy a used motor and put it in. A guy I know offered up a theory as to why it won't spin. He said if the bearing spun out of the cap, the rod end is no good anymore and is going to bind up. But I countered by asking how then, can the engine still "run" if it hasn't seized yet? And why is it when I torque down ANY ONE of the new bearings, the crank absolutely refuses to turn by hand? He had no real explanation except perhaps all the rod ends have warped. I'm still crossing my finger that the used turbo-block bearings will wiork. If not then I have to order a standard set from Modern, and it won't get here until wednesday next week. Theres a local guy also selling a used Neon motor for $600, a bit steep for me. Anybody else in California got a used motor for sale?
Cars I've been through:
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo (still have it, non-running)
1994 Acura Integra (wrecked)
1994 Chrysler New Yorker (still have it, mom's now)
1990 Honda Civic AWD Wagon (stolen)
1998 Honda Civic LX (stolen)
1994 Nissan Pickup (bought from uncle, sold back to him)
2001 Dodge Neon R/T (wrecked)
1998 Lexus GS300 (current)
1999 BMW 528i Sport (current)

01NeonR/T
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Post by 01NeonR/T » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:26 pm

Tried the Turbo block bearings, and cylinders 1,2,4 spun fine but cylinder 3 was DOA. The marring on the journal is bad enough to prevent the engine from turning. Now my only option is to race against time and try to forego the "correct" method and hope the thing doesn't break, or locate another 00-02 motor to put in, or try putting the turbo block in. I hate my life right now.
Cars I've been through:
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo (still have it, non-running)
1994 Acura Integra (wrecked)
1994 Chrysler New Yorker (still have it, mom's now)
1990 Honda Civic AWD Wagon (stolen)
1998 Honda Civic LX (stolen)
1994 Nissan Pickup (bought from uncle, sold back to him)
2001 Dodge Neon R/T (wrecked)
1998 Lexus GS300 (current)
1999 BMW 528i Sport (current)

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INVUJerry
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Post by INVUJerry » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:40 pm

I told you man, any block from 95-02 will work. I just noticed what you said, so disregard some of my previous PM. It all depends on how much of a wiring job you want to do. Mostly, its just sensor differences. You can drop a 1gn motor into a 2gn. I saw a 2.4 DOHC n/a motor in a stock 2gn, ran off the stock computer. It's not too bad. Check out neons.org , although guys are really tough there sometimes, they will help you out alot.
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t vago
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Post by t vago » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:33 pm

If you can, try to get a 1995 block. It has a factory oil catch can for the PCV system. I learned this by accident.

Stock rod bearings are supposed to be about 1.5 mm thick.

01NeonR/T
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Post by 01NeonR/T » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:45 pm

I think I already told Jerry, but the engine sorta cranks now, the starter just doesn't have enough juice to crank, as the car has been sitting for too long. I torqued everything down pretty good (and put in the #3 bearing cap backwards, then fixed it) and it spins fairly freely, but just doesn't crank cause of no electrical power. I need to jump start it, and well, hope it stays together. Hopefully the Cat will get here so I can weld it in and pass smog. All I care about for now is passing smog....

1.5mm thick.. hmm the ACL bearings were a bit thicker than that iirc..
Cars I've been through:
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo (still have it, non-running)
1994 Acura Integra (wrecked)
1994 Chrysler New Yorker (still have it, mom's now)
1990 Honda Civic AWD Wagon (stolen)
1998 Honda Civic LX (stolen)
1994 Nissan Pickup (bought from uncle, sold back to him)
2001 Dodge Neon R/T (wrecked)
1998 Lexus GS300 (current)
1999 BMW 528i Sport (current)

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SGT BRAD
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Post by SGT BRAD » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:46 pm

95 blocks had some problems with high hp applications from what i was told when discussing it with darrell cox. the later blocks had a higher silicone content, blah, blah, blah,. apparently the more desirable blocks are the later ones. or so i've been told.
brad
ooh...there's a glimmer of the dream left!!!

01NeonR/T
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Post by 01NeonR/T » Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:43 pm

I out the turbo engine bearings in, and the car runs :rockon: . For how long? Who knows? BUt I called the referee to make an appointment and guess what: My ticket was for modified exhaust, meaning I don't need a full blown smog check inspection, I just need a sound test. If I don;t go over 95dba, it's all good, and the service is free. I still need to get a smog check to re-register my car though. I fixed the cat, although I'm still throwing that 02 sensor heater wire code, meaning I probably need a new one. My friend has a couple from the mustang I might try splicing in (they're both 4-wire), or see if I can get a good sensor somewhere else.
Cars I've been through:
1989 Toyota Supra Turbo (still have it, non-running)
1994 Acura Integra (wrecked)
1994 Chrysler New Yorker (still have it, mom's now)
1990 Honda Civic AWD Wagon (stolen)
1998 Honda Civic LX (stolen)
1994 Nissan Pickup (bought from uncle, sold back to him)
2001 Dodge Neon R/T (wrecked)
1998 Lexus GS300 (current)
1999 BMW 528i Sport (current)

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