2005 sxt im in battle with myself about some mods

OB · Post by OB » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:32 pm

TN.frank - Limp mode is also used in almost every OBDII vehicle in production. From years 96 to present.

Adionik- If spent properly, $5K could probably get a NA base neon pretty damn close to an srt. Hands down if it was used for a forced induction setup. I dont know about you, but I paid 13K for my neon brand new off the lot. 13+5 is 18k. SRT's MSRP for just under 20. The srt on the lot the day I bought my neon was going for 28K. Not sure how that came out to double the price. And if you want to throw the "I meant a used SRT" card, remember that a used neon, not 2-3 years old, blue books for less than 5K alone. Bottom line is, a neon+money will ALWAYS beat an SRT4 in the overall money spent comparison.

soul sword knows what he's talkin about. The neon was designed to compete in its class, and it succeeded flawlessly. It was campaigned as a race/autox friendly car and did well in the old days. The newer neons were watered down a bit, overwieght and underpowered, but they are still at the top of their class from the performance aspect. The comfort level stayed with the simple stone age 90's design, but who are we to care about that? It's one of the quickest, best handling entry-level compact sedans on the road, and is dirt cheap to boot.

soul_sword34 · Post by **soul_sword34** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:26 pm

kc2002acr wrote:true, 5k will get you an srt4 swap

300whp on 5k N/A is NEVER going to happen on the stock 2.0L, sorry - that is incorrect.

Yes, the ACR did out-perform everything in its class, which is why they changed the neons class.

Ah...never said anything about $5,000 for N/A. Anyways dollar for dollar the neon can beat an SRT-4.

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:23 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong(and ya'll probably will, LOL) but aren't most Sport Compact cars that are "Tuners" be it from Japan, Europe or the Good Ol' U.S. of A. pretty much "Under Powered Grocrey Getters" off of the dealer showroom. I mean, a Honda Civic or VW Jetta isn't exactly a "HotRod" when it comes to the dealer. That's where the "Tuner" part comes into play. You take it and tweak it into shape to make it run better. That's half the fun. Anyone can buy a fast car if you've got the cash but to take something that's slow and make it fast is where the fun comes in.

soul_sword34 · Post by **soul_sword34** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:42 pm

TN.Frank wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong(and ya'll probably will, LOL) but aren't most Sport Compact cars that are "Tuners" be it from Japan, Europe or the Good Ol' U.S. of A. pretty much "Under Powered Grocrey Getters" off of the dealer showroom. I mean, a Honda Civic or VW Jetta isn't exactly a "HotRod" when it comes to the dealer. That's where the "Tuner" part comes into play. You take it and tweak it into shape to make it run better. That's half the fun. Anyone can buy a fast car if you've got the cash but to take something that's slow and make it fast is where the fun comes in.

The term Sport Compact Car has been debated a lot. Your right though. It's all in the tuners hands. Too many kids who don't know jack buy an SRT-4 and think it is the fastest thing. At the track it's really funny to see their best times in the 15's.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:15 pm

soul_sword34 wrote:
kc2002acr wrote:true, 5k will get you an srt4 swap

300whp on 5k N/A is NEVER going to happen on the stock 2.0L, sorry - that is incorrect.

Yes, the ACR did out-perform everything in its class, which is why they changed the neons class.
Ah...never said anything about $5,000 for N/A. Anyways dollar for dollar the neon can beat an SRT-4.

soul_sword34 wrote:$5,000 will easily net you 300+ whp on a cheap ass $1,000-$5,000 car

I thought THAT is what you were talking about - I guess we should get back on topic though, huh? Wait, what was the topic anyway???

soul_sword34 · Post by **soul_sword34** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:17 pm

Sorry

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:13 am

OB wrote:TN.frank - Limp mode is also used in almost every OBDII vehicle in production. From years 96 to present.

Adionik- If spent properly, $5K could probably get a NA base neon pretty damn close to an srt. Hands down if it was used for a forced induction setup. I dont know about you, but I paid 13K for my neon brand new off the lot. 13+5 is 18k. SRT's MSRP for just under 20. The srt on the lot the day I bought my neon was going for 28K. Not sure how that came out to double the price. And if you want to throw the "I meant a used SRT" card, remember that a used neon, not 2-3 years old, blue books for less than 5K alone. Bottom line is, a neon+money will ALWAYS beat an SRT4 in the overall money spent comparison.

soul sword knows what he's talkin about. The neon was designed to compete in its class, and it succeeded flawlessly. It was campaigned as a race/autox friendly car and did well in the old days. The newer neons were watered down a bit, overwieght and underpowered, but they are still at the top of their class from the performance aspect. The comfort level stayed with the simple stone age 90's design, but who are we to care about that? It's one of the quickest, best handling entry-level compact sedans on the road, and is dirt cheap to boot.

Yeah...I was talking about a used SRT.

I've seen several 03's and 04's for around 7 grand that just make modding THIS 2.0 stupid in my opinion.

I'm sick and tired of hearing "magnum shave this, piston that" and nobody ever fucking does it.

They're all talk. Gets REALLY old. Because all the n00bs go through the process.

soul_sword34 · Post by **soul_sword34** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:18 pm

Adionik wrote: I'm sick and tired of hearing "magnum shave this, piston that" and nobody ever fucking does it.

They're all talk. Gets REALLY old. Because all the n00bs go through the process.

Check out my project log sometime. Nobody?

OB · Post by OB » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:27 am

Everyone starts out wanting to build NA and use bolt ons to make power. The truth is, power comes at a price. Forced induction is almost always the better way to make power, as well as the most cost efficient by far. The thing you have to ask yourself is, do you want a fast car in a straight line, or a fast car in the hills. The neon isnt a good platform for the drag racers out there, but it does have a good foot up on many cars in the handling department. The way I see, if you have a car to work with and you want to tune it, why not capitalize on its strengths and build on them, instead of trying to make it something it's not? The neon is a car with entry-level racing in its DNA, and it shows the second you drive one. The 2gn started to become more accessible as a grocery getter, but the untapped potential is still there, just a bit harder to see.

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:50 pm

soul_sword34 wrote:
Adionik wrote: I'm sick and tired of hearing "magnum shave this, piston that" and nobody ever fucking does it.

They're all talk. Gets REALLY old. Because all the n00bs go through the process.
Check out my project log sometime. Nobody?

Have you bought any of that stuff?

I'm not trying to talk shit to you, if anything you're far from the people I'm talking about. You've actually bought some stuff.

But the rest of your unfilled list is still pretty big.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am

^^ Who cares anyway? I know people who talked about getting an SRT4 for over a year, but with a little effort they got their car -- as well as people who have waited for over a year for a swap, or spent half a year building an engine - some people dont just have five grand sitting around that they can blow at one time - some people have lives and bills and such so they take priority over a hobby... I guess me talking about getting DOHC pistons and rebuilding the bottom end is just BS talk huh, since I talked about doing a cam swap, lth install, new exhaust, hell, everything in my car for well over two years, but most of it is done...

Lighten up, Francis.

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:20 am

Whatever pizza boy, congrats on your mods.

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:17 am

I'm sure the Insurance on an SRT4 would be quite a bit more then on an SXT too. Money is tight, you do what you can do when you can do it and not much more. I've been kickin' it around and I really think the first thing that needs to be done is to get a handle on your computer control systems, be it adding a MegaSqurit for us NGC guys or finding a Flash Programer that'll work on the non-NGC cars so you can at least tweak your timing and Air/Fuel ratios to get the most out of what you have. Then traction can come into play with an LSD and better clutch kit.
I still don't understand why someone hasn't come up with an OBD II plug in type flash programer for the '03-05 Neons. Jet has a plug in chip(which I hear is pretty much useless) so they've had to have hacked the code to do that, why didn't they just come up with a hand held programer so we could just plug in and tweak settings in the stock NGC computer program?

Fuzzyneon · Post by **Fuzzyneon** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:56 pm

Like i said i would really just like 140-150 hp mark and yes my insurenc on a srt-4 would be much higher i couldnt afford it unless i was gonna eat dirt till it was paid off lol just wanna know if 140-150hp is reasonabal mark for a ngc megasquirt controlled car

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:16 pm

Like I said, any engine worth it's salt could be able to give 1.5HP/cubic inch if it's worth a damn. Yes, I'm talking crank HP, not WHP because the same engine in two different cars will give very different WHP numbers so Crank HP is a more common number to talk about across the boards, it's what the industry useds to rate engines, it's what engine builders use and it's what I use.
As far as HP goes, I can get 150HP out of a 2.0L Air Cooled VW engine very easily and even more if I went to add a turbo or N2O to the car. 2332cc VW engines make 180HP all day long and you can get even more if you add a turbo or N2O.

OB · Post by OB » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:29 pm

Engine displacement really has very little to do with power potential, even in a NA engine. I've seen Honda S2000's with almost 300whp without forced induction. Keep in mind, that is with a 2.0L engine. It really comes down to compression and a tuned powerband. I dont doubt for a second that our engines could break 200whp, but it would cost a lot of money, because the starting point is much lower than that of something like an F20 (S2k motor). I'm sure the DOHC in those more powerful NA motors makes a big difference as well, in both tunability and flow potential.

Bottom line is, if you want decent power in a Neon, its either forced induction, motor swap, or a standalone PCM with lots of money in supporting mods.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:25 pm

If you want 140-150 WHP motor, look at my mods, that will give you 140-143, and with megasquirt, you are looking at more... mind you need the mag head, and intake.

A comp 400 cam in mag head, lth with merge collector and cat delete, mag intake, cai, 60mm tb, udp, should get you to 138-140 minus the megasquirt.

The 03-05 all have 9.8:1 CR, right?

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:50 pm

Stock '03-'05's are 9.3:1 compression. I'm just giving up and getting a VW Bug. I can do more with a Bug for less money and less hassel then I can with this Neon. Anyone looking for a nice car shoot me a PM and we'll talk price.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:50 pm

One of these will help wake up your car, but good luck finding one

JKD · Post by **JKD** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:57 pm

Interesting thread about the PCM in the 03+ cars. Our car is a her daily. There will not be any megasquirt installed. Bummer for sure though. Oh well, just stick to some hardcore suspension mods

Oh btw, to those of you who say its impossible to gain 30hp on a N/A engine. I beg to differ.

On my SS, I gained over 40whp (yes at the wheels... not the crank) with nothing more than a cold air lid, intake, headers, and exhaust.

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:55 pm

JKD wrote:Interesting thread about the PCM in the 03+ cars. Our car is a her daily. There will not be any megasquirt installed. Bummer for sure though. Oh well, just stick to some hardcore suspension mods

Oh btw, to those of you who say its impossible to gain 30hp on a N/A engine. I beg to differ.

On my SS, I gained over 40whp (yes at the wheels... not the crank) with nothing more than a cold air lid, intake, headers, and exhaust.

Yep, good ol' American V8's respond pretty well to very simple mods.
Also, I noticed you're in Cookeville JKD, too bad we couldn't get together and talk cars sometime. Do you ever go to the I-40 Dragway here in Crossville? Lots of fairly hot cars running around that place. Anyway, maybe we can meet at the Strip sometime and run Neons down the track on the Friday Night Run What Ya' Brung, LOL, That'd be a hoot.

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:40 pm

That's 40whp from bolt on's out of 350ci. We've only got 122ci to work with.

JKD · Post by **JKD** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:54 pm

TN.Frank - Yup I'm right down the road from you.
Believe it or not, I go to I-40 Dragway very very often.
I'd love to meet up with ya this season and make some passes with my girlfriend's 04 SXT. We'll see what she can do!

I think I've got my SS sold so I'll probably not be in it this season. I want to try something a little different (owned fbodies for 7 years since turning 16 years old). Probably gonna go with some sort of turbo car for a change.

Look forward to some runs man!

TN.Frank · Post by **TN.Frank** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:39 pm

Well heck, JKD, buy that '04 SXT off of your girlfriend and we can sit and drink beer and cry about the NGC computer system together, LOL.

Really though, IF I keep the car I'd like a body kit, lowering struts and springs, some brake upgrades, anti-sway bar upgrades and then I can worry about power via a Turbo at a later date. Since I don't race everyday I'd at least like something that looks good even if it's a slug in the speed dept. LOL.

JKD · Post by **JKD** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:06 pm

TN.Frank wrote:Well heck, JKD, buy that '04 SXT off of your girlfriend and we can sit and drink beer and cry about the NGC computer system together, LOL.
Really though, IF I keep the car I'd like a body kit, lowering struts and springs, some brake upgrades, anti-sway bar upgrades and then I can worry about power via a Turbo at a later date. Since I don't race everyday I'd at least like something that looks good even if it's a slug in the speed dept. LOL.

LOL, the car is practically mine. She just daily drives it. I've pretty much paid for the whole thing (4 years down, 2 years to go). I can drive it whenever I want

NGC computer doesn't bother me a bit, really. The car makes good power for what it is. Handles phenominally. My plans with the car are coilovers, sways, wheels/tires, stb's and some appearance mods. The car has plenty enough power, IMO.

If her car ever got engine mods (which it won't) it would be an SRT-4 swap. But it won't. I have access to her brothers car which is an actual SRT-4 so that's not a problem..

Keep the SXT! There awesome cars for what they are. There a cheap, well-handling car with excellent fuel economy. Just drive the crap out of it and enjoy it

I look forward to when the track opens back up!