Timing belt tensioner & water pump questions

Arro · Post by **Arro** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:07 pm

Ok, so I went on carpartswholesale.com, and I looked up a timing belt tensioner for a 2004 Neon 2.0L, because I know the 2000 year part is the expensive hydraulic version.

carpartswholesale lists three different Gates brand tensioners for 2004, all three different prices. I tried to ask the person on their live chat why that was, and of course they fed me a line of crap, and refused to tell me the corresponding Gates part #'s for the carpartswholesale SKU's. Whatever.

I read up on this here: viewtopic.php?t=28403

So some of you in that thread got yours with a bracket included. All the local parts stores and carpartswholesale say they don't come with the bracket.

So what's the deal? Do they usually come with a bracket or not? That thread is aging a bit, so for those of you who bought that timing kit, how did it work out?

I blew my water pump, and I want to do the timing belt and tensioner while I do the pump. I originally wanted to go with a Gates belt and Gates tensioner (and if Gates makes the water pump, then theirs, too)... but after searching here and on google, I've yet to find a solid source for these parts.

Also, do all brand water pumps for these cars use plastic impellers?

Thanks in advance.

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:22 pm

Sounds like they are referring to the hydraulic tensioner, not sure though. The litens tensioner is all you need as far as the tensioner goes

I got all my timing stuff from parts dinosaur and after 7k miles everything is working perfectly. The guy that runs that store is awesome, fast shipping and answers all your emails very quickly. I drive my car really hard too, no sign of any problems and i don't expect any.

I got the gates timing belt: http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/product2264.html

The litens tensioner: http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/product1781.html

And this water pump: http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/product304.html

The water pump I pulled off and the one I put on both had metal impellers, not sure if there are any plastic ones. I would think the hot coolant would deteriorate them after a while.

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:06 pm

The one mod you will need to do with the Litens tensioner is to cut a hole in your timing cover where the back of the tensioner rests.

This is a DOHC, but you get the idea.

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t ... c&start=25

Arro · Post by **Arro** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:08 pm

So did that tensioner come with that bracket in the picture, or was it just the little round thing?

occasional demons wrote:The one mod you will need to do with the Litens tensioner is to cut a hole in your timing cover where the back of the tensioner rests.

This is a DOHC, but you get the idea.

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t ... c&start=25

I don't understand, why does the Litens not fit stock? Were some of the years 2.0L different?

Paul56 · Post by **Paul56** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:17 pm

Arro wrote:I blew my water pump, and I want to do the timing belt and tensioner while I do the pump.

At the same time do:

-cam seal
-crank seal

...and check the upper torque strut (motor mount) to see if the rubber inside is shot. Also check the PS/AC tensioner to see if the idler runs smoooth. Replace parts as necessary.

Also, do all brand water pumps for these cars use plastic impellers?

I went with Mopar parts... the Mopar water pump has metal impellers.

Arro · Post by **Arro** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:21 pm

Paul56 wrote:At the same time do:

-cam seal
-crank seal

...and check the upper torque strut (motor mount) to see if the rubber inside is shot. Also check the PS/AC tensioner to see if the idler runs smoooth. Replace parts as necessary.

Yeah the rubber on the top mount is broken apart, but still inside the mount... my buddy and I were considering jacking the engine up to put the center pin in the proper location, and filling it with urethane. Anyone think this is a bad idea, and if so, why? What do some of the alternatives cost?

I went with Mopar parts... the Mopar water pump has metal impellers.

I know in the old days, Mopar gave discounts at the parts counter if you were part of a club, do they still do this?

Post by **occasional demons** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:32 pm

Arro wrote:So did that tensioner come with that bracket in the picture, or was it just the little round thing?
It comes as the complete assy.

I don't understand, why does the Litens not fit stock? Were some of the years 2.0L different?
The hole needs to be there because the hyd tensioner bracket is shaped differently, so they didn't put the clearance hole in the early timing covers.

Arro · Post by **Arro** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:36 pm

Ahhh, thank you

latief · Post by **latief** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:21 pm

you've seen this, right?

http://chronoscender.freeservers.com/ne ... gbelt.html

Arro · Post by **Arro** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:37 pm

Yup, it's been on my favorites since the day the water pump gave way

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:46 pm

The 04 litens tensioner is a direct bolt in on a 2000. A my2000 requires no modification of the rear timing cover. It's plug and play.

00 vs 04:

Installed - DIRECT BOLT IN:

latief · Post by **latief** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:57 pm

I think on the 2000, you don't need to modify the cover. on the 01, 02 they went to the hyd. tensioner so it got modified. unless your car is a late 2000 model, you should be fine......

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:58 am

Not sure about the 00-01, but my 02 already had a mechanical tensioner on there so I didn't need to modify the cover. I guess the crank and cam seal would be a good idea for older high mileage, but mine were fine so I didn't bother.

You could also throw an UDP on there while it's all apart, shouldn't cost extra if a shop is doing the work.

Arro · Post by **Arro** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:02 am

The more I look on parts dinosaur, the more I like their site... but they don't have cam or crank seals. Where's the best place to pick them up at?

jT · Post by jT » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:20 am

for whatever reason the litens tensioner supposedly did not fit my car.. not sure if whatever work that would have been performed relating to the TSB about it was ever done on my car... or if it even mattered.

or maybe the guy just didnt know WTF he was talking about.. . did not have time to argue with him.. but even still on rockauto.com it says if work has not been performed you need to use another kit also, which turns it into like $250 in parts just for the tensioner...

you may possibly face the same problem...

04R/T · Post by **04R/T** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:21 am

I bought a kit when I did mine and the Littens tensioner came with the bracket however the bracket didn't have the dowel in the top left arm nor was it machined for the dowel. -New tensioner on the right.

The block is counterbored to accept this dowel and some here said I'd have problems if I ran the new tensioner without the dowel on my block. One guy said this tensioner was for 2000 and earlier blocks that are not counterbored. I 'm not sure about that one. Anyway, I just took the new roller off the tensioner and installed it on the old bracket. Problem, if there was one, solved.

Arro · Post by **Arro** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:36 am

Well since I'm a 2000 I should be fine then. I ordered the Gates timing belt, Litens tensioner, and Litens water pump, from partsdinosaur... and this month they have $7.50 off of all purchases over $150, nice little xmas promo, paid for the shipping

Now I just gotta get the cam & crank seals, dogbone motor mounts (my motor mounts are shot to hell), and possibly an MPx UDP.

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:48 pm

The dowel is not needed on our 2g cars. I can't remember exactly which year or model block it was, but the dowel was used to align in properly with the machined recess on the block (I think it was the stratus, but I'm not sure). There was some info about it on the "other" site, but I can't remember exactly where. I know mine fit perfect and works great so I wouldn't worry.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:27 pm

Donkeypuncher wrote:The dowel is not needed on our 2g cars. I can't remember exactly which year or model block it was, but the dowel was used to align in properly with the machined recess on the block (I think it was the stratus, but I'm not sure). There was some info about it on the "other" site, but I can't remember exactly where. I know mine fit perfect and works great so I wouldn't worry.

The alignment dowel does serve a purpose on the 2nd gens. It lines up the side engine mounting plate. While not critical, it does make installing the side plate much easier.

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:06 pm

Crap, I had a brain fart on that one. I meant to say motor mount plate and not block, nice catch, I need to stop speed typing. I actually talked to they guy at parts dinosaur before my install, and he said they stopped putting the dowel on because it was only needed on certain older 1g cars that shared the same block.

He said as long as you hand tightened all the mounting bolts before torquing them down, there won't be an alignment problem.

2GN.ORG

Timing belt tensioner & water pump questions

Timing belt tensioner & water pump questions

Re: Timing belt tensioner & water pump questions

Re: Timing belt tensioner & water pump questions