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bore out cyclinders
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:41 pm
by synviper
newb question
... my parents used to have a mustang that hade bored out cyclinder heads or the cylinder itself idk (newb)... anyways if i would go with an all motor neon and bored the cylinder and 10:5 compression pistons and all the other associated parts such as cam.. cam gear.. motor mounts.. blah blah blah... would i see any real horse power gain
by the way i have 2003 dodge neon se DD? someone said 10:5 would be alot of engine braking when i let off the throttle idk thats what he said.. someone shot me back some comments..
thanks
jake
Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:48 am
by OB
Boring the cylinder and going to an oversize piston can increase displacement a bit, but if you over-do it you might run into issues with the water jackets in the block. Compression that high would be great for power, but would require significant tuning to run properly and reliably. If you just do internal work without computer tuning you can plan on minimal power gains and a good shot at a blown engine. Your aftermarket standalone computer options are limited, with Megasquirt being the most popular in the Neon crowd due to low price and great features. Do some research, especially in the FAQ Engine and Tuning sections.
As far as the engine brake theory goes, higher compression naturally increases cylinder pressures, both on accel and decel. So you might notice a difference in decel, but probably nothing drastic.
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:11 am
by asanti
Also keep in mind that he has an '03. NGC of course is the main problem if he doesn't go to a MS system. To date I don't believe anyone's attemped a hi-comp build on an NGC controlled 2nd gen, but I could be mistaken?
Later
Allex
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:37 pm
by occasional demons
asanti wrote:Also keep in mind that he has an '03. NGC of course is the main problem if he doesn't go to a MS system. To date I don't believe anyone's attemped a hi-comp build on an NGC controlled 2nd gen, but I could be mistaken?
Later
Allex
IIRC, Hudson Neon is/has, but haven't seen much of him lately here.
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:41 pm
by 03blackrt
^ IIRC his dyno test was inconclusive. His cam gear fell apart on the dyno (and he scored the cylinder head too, IIRC.)
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:25 pm
by hybrid-Srt2001
i have seen overbores in a neon up to .120, but that was a 1/4 mile only car. you will be safe up to about .060 if you get the block sonicly checked for thickness, but its not worth it imo. you will get better results from higher comp pistons and milling the head.
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:30 pm
by OB
asanti wrote:Also keep in mind that he has an '03. NGC of course is the main problem if he doesn't go to a MS system. To date I don't believe anyone's attemped a hi-comp build on an NGC controlled 2nd gen, but I could be mistaken?
Later
Allex
I have yet to see anyone successfully build a high comp engine w/o a standalone, NGC or not. No stock PCM can be used for a race engine, why do people always blame NGC
Show me a 00-02 with a stock computer and built engine. Even just one.
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:09 pm
by hybrid-Srt2001
wait till mine is done, the afx still qualifies as a stock based computer.
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:12 pm
by OB
Isn't it a complete replacement though? I'd say that doesn't count, even if they do use parts of the stock PCM.
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:15 pm
by hybrid-Srt2001
its the stock pcm re programed with higher rev limit, no speed cut and advanced timing. the only reason it is needed is the extra rpm's for the large cam
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:28 pm
by OB
Do you get to set the timing based on what's ideal for your setup, or is it just a generic advance that all the PCMs get? Has anyone ever asked Howell about doing the same for the NGC PCM's? Or does everyone just assume that the same couldn't be done with them?
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:32 pm
by hybrid-Srt2001
nope it is generic, definately not ideal, but better than stock. howell will not make one for the ngc, it has been asked; not that anybody wants to deal with him
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:07 pm
by asanti
OB wrote:asanti wrote:Also keep in mind that he has an '03. NGC of course is the main problem if he doesn't go to a MS system. To date I don't believe anyone's attemped a hi-comp build on an NGC controlled 2nd gen, but I could be mistaken?
Later
Allex
I have yet to see anyone successfully build a high comp engine w/o a standalone, NGC or not. No stock PCM can be used for a race engine, why do people always blame NGC
Show me a 00-02 with a stock computer and built engine. Even just one.
Umm, here kind of lol!
Once I get this block installed, the AFX/R I've been runnin for 5 yrs along with the Neo I'm getting installed tomorrow will do me fine.
Later
Allex
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:39 pm
by OB
An AFX/R isn't stock. IMO it is a poor substitute for a properly tuned computer, since it is in no way designed to work with specific parts. Why spend thousands of dollars on an engine only to sell it short with a generic tune?
Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:48 am
by asanti
OB wrote:An AFX/R isn't stock. IMO it is a poor substitute for a properly tuned computer, since it is in no way designed to work with specific parts. Why spend thousands of dollars on an engine only to sell it short with a generic tune?
Oh I know it's not stock.... but it's not a
full standalone either.
Umm, here kind of lol!
<--- that was me, being sarcastic OB.
Later
Allex
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:38 am
by Hudson_Neon
occasional demons wrote:asanti wrote:Also keep in mind that he has an '03. NGC of course is the main problem if he doesn't go to a MS system. To date I don't believe anyone's attemped a hi-comp build on an NGC controlled 2nd gen, but I could be mistaken?
Later
Allex
IIRC, Hudson Neon is/has, but haven't seen much of him lately here.
that is correct. i have. the dyno didn't go so hot last spring, but i plan on hitting the dyno again this spring. i'll let you know what's up.
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:42 am
by racer12306
*faints*
he's back
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:10 pm
by hul kogan
racer12306 wrote:
*faints*
he's back
No wai! That's not rly him.
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:25 pm
by occasional demons
Welcome NOOBIE!
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:47 pm
by INVUJerry
OB wrote:An AFX/R isn't stock. IMO it is a poor substitute for a properly tuned computer, since it is in no way designed to work with specific parts. Why spend thousands of dollars on an engine only to sell it short with a generic tune?
Well then, I guess I have to throw away my mopar DOHC computer and SAFC2 on my 98. I'm making great power for the mods I have, but my generic tune and all is a waste. I guess a true standalone is the only way to go.
For neons, the AFX is good substitute if you still have to run a PCM for emissions reasons. What we really need is a good bit of timing (that the AFX gives) and a high rev limiter (that the AFX gives), with decent fuel trims (imagine that, the AFX does good with that too). For someone that wants a plug and play setup, it works great (when it works).