Different Noise after Timing Belt Replacement

This is the place to ask questions about your engine components like cams, valves, pistons… just anything that is generally "engine" specific. This also includes questions about exhaust systems such as exhaust manifolds, piping size, mufflers, ect...
JKD
2GN Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:33 am
Location: Cookeville, TN

Different Noise after Timing Belt Replacement

Post by JKD » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:31 pm

Hi all,

In my other thread, I made a post about the car making a squeeky / chirping noise. The speculation was that it was the timing belt and components. I just finished up the timing belt swap and am happy to announce that the noise is now gone! Although every single component still looked great once removed, that is where the problem was. I replaced the following parts:

- Gates Timing Belt
- Gates Water Pump
- Gates Mechanical Tensioner
- Gates PS / AC Tensioner Pulley

For reference, the thread can be viewed here:

viewtopic.php?t=55693


Ok, now for the big question! After the entire swap, the car now has a slight annoying growling noise coming from the timing belt and/or components. It is not very loud and only occurs at IDLE. What is it?

All went very well with the swap, I took my time to ensure that every single bolt was torqued to specification and that the timing marks were perfectly in line. The timing belt tensioner's spring tang was exactly between the tolerance window - which debunks my initial guess of an overtightened belt. The torque struts are properly aligned and the crankshaft pulley is seated correctly. I heated the pulley at 300 degrees for 20 minutes then hammered the pulley on the crank snout then drove it home with my impact.


The car drives perfectly. The noise disappears 100% once the engine speed increases above idle. I suspect that all is well but I would just like to know if there is something I am missing.

Thanks in advance,
Jared
2004 Dodge Neon SXT - MTX
1999 Pontiac Trans Am
1992 Geo Prizm LSi

sold:
2002 Corvette ZO6
2003 Mitsubishi Evo VIII
1998 Camaro SS
1993 Camaro Z28
1988 Suzuki Samurai
1992 Honda Civic Hatchback

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19944
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:38 pm

Could still be the timing belt making the noise. Give it a few miles and see if it fades a bit. IIRC, my belt was a bit noisy when it was new. Usually it is kind of like a supercharger whine when too tight, but it can be just less loud with a new belt/tensioner. The tensioner spring might just need to take a set too.

But without actually hearing said sound, it is all a scientific wild ass guess. :lol:
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

JKD
2GN Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:33 am
Location: Cookeville, TN

Post by JKD » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:04 pm

Bill,

Thanks for the reply. I suspect that it will fade some over the course of the upcoming miles. Perhaps it just needs some run time. The belt only has about 15 miles and 30 minutes worth of idling on it.

I know the noise you speak of. Many times, when a belt is too tight the whine will increase as engine speed increases. My noise is non-existant other than at idle. It is almost impossible to properly diagnose noise over the Internet but I figured I'd seek input anyway! :rockon:

Thanks again
2004 Dodge Neon SXT - MTX
1999 Pontiac Trans Am
1992 Geo Prizm LSi

sold:
2002 Corvette ZO6
2003 Mitsubishi Evo VIII
1998 Camaro SS
1993 Camaro Z28
1988 Suzuki Samurai
1992 Honda Civic Hatchback

r/tguy02
2GN Member
Posts: 3644
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:42 pm
Location: carlisle, pa.

Post by r/tguy02 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:08 pm

along with what bill said a new belt can also stretch a bit over time relaxing some of that tautness. its also possible the belt is rubbing the timing cover slightly somehow.
Justin
[02 R/T sold][00 Highline sold][04 r/t scrapped][95 NYG Sport coupe][01 r/t DD]
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2931823

JKD
2GN Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:33 am
Location: Cookeville, TN

Post by JKD » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:21 pm

Justin,

I suppose that is certainly possible. To be on the safe side, at the next oil change I will inspect it real good and perhaps even adjust the tightness of the outside timing cover.

Thanks!
2004 Dodge Neon SXT - MTX
1999 Pontiac Trans Am
1992 Geo Prizm LSi

sold:
2002 Corvette ZO6
2003 Mitsubishi Evo VIII
1998 Camaro SS
1993 Camaro Z28
1988 Suzuki Samurai
1992 Honda Civic Hatchback

User avatar
jonnymopar
Junior Admin
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:49 pm
Location: Southeastern MA

Post by jonnymopar » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:30 am

Maybe it's a Gates thing. I installed the same components as you and I get exactly the same noise. However, I did my timing belt in Oct. 2009 and I'm still getting the noise. I've put over 20k miles on it since then, 5000+rpm on a daily basis, and no problems yet.

I have noticed that it's only that loud when I first start driving. After 10 minutes of driving, it's completely gone, but the next morning, I'll get the same thing.
Image
Jon J.

2003 Neon SXT - new home, new owner. Thanks for everything, old friend.
1989 Daytona ES - 2.4L/A555 swapped

Official "I'm Going To Drive My Neon Until Jerry Buys It" Club Member #11

gcretro
2GN Member
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:01 pm

Post by gcretro » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:28 am

Wow. That makes 3 of us.
I have exactly the same thing. I got my timing belt changed with the same Gates kit and Dayco AC/PS serpentine belt pulley. I also had the alternator belt changed (only alternator belt not the ac/ps belt). Also had the center mount + both torque struts changed.

The noise is only at idle or when rpm returns to idle and is pretty faint. I have driven it for over 500 miles now. The noise is the same.... I'll try to record it.

I don't know of a way to inspect the timing belt without taking out the mount bracket and that's too much work.
Last edited by gcretro on Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
00Neon RCR
2GN Member
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:33 pm
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Contact:

Post by 00Neon RCR » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:54 am

jonnymopar wrote:5000+rpm on a daily basis

LMAO, made my night. Balls to the walls!

User avatar
jonnymopar
Junior Admin
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:49 pm
Location: Southeastern MA

Post by jonnymopar » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:41 am

00Neon RCR wrote:
jonnymopar wrote:5000+rpm on a daily basis
LMAO, made my night. Balls to the walls!
Heh, in Massachusetts, if you merge on to an interstate doing less than 60mph, prepare to get horns, middle fingers, and in some cases, rear-ended. Gotta really wind up that 2.0L most of the time. I've always driven it like that and it comes home in one piece, running solid, day after day after day.
Image
Jon J.

2003 Neon SXT - new home, new owner. Thanks for everything, old friend.
1989 Daytona ES - 2.4L/A555 swapped

Official "I'm Going To Drive My Neon Until Jerry Buys It" Club Member #11

JKD
2GN Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:33 am
Location: Cookeville, TN

Post by JKD » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:34 am

Wow! So three of us?

600 miles now on the timing belt with no self destruction thus far! I keep hoping the noise will go away but no luck yet. I was halfway contemplating redoing it but I may just let it ride.
2004 Dodge Neon SXT - MTX
1999 Pontiac Trans Am
1992 Geo Prizm LSi

sold:
2002 Corvette ZO6
2003 Mitsubishi Evo VIII
1998 Camaro SS
1993 Camaro Z28
1988 Suzuki Samurai
1992 Honda Civic Hatchback

User avatar
jonnymopar
Junior Admin
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:49 pm
Location: Southeastern MA

Post by jonnymopar » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:02 pm

Yep, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Honestly, after reading this thread, I'm even less worried about mine than I was before. I seriously thought I overtightened mine, but I centered that tensioner right in the little window just like you and I've had no problems other than that noise.
Image
Jon J.

2003 Neon SXT - new home, new owner. Thanks for everything, old friend.
1989 Daytona ES - 2.4L/A555 swapped

Official "I'm Going To Drive My Neon Until Jerry Buys It" Club Member #11

User avatar
bone-yard-racing
2GN Member
Posts: 2328
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:36 pm
Location: York PA
Contact:

Post by bone-yard-racing » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:43 pm

Make it 4 the gates racing belt on the SRT makes the same noise the goodyear on every other neon Ive owned was completely silent
Image

gcretro
2GN Member
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:01 pm

Post by gcretro » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:13 pm

wow. Should call gates and try a partial refund :D

Just googled and found exact same complaints on a different car forum where folks had used gates.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-engine ... noise.html

JKD
2GN Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:33 am
Location: Cookeville, TN

Post by JKD » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:20 am

This is a great thread! Thanks to all of you that have responded with your input. I will keep this thread updated.

I noticed the same thing on the Evo cars. However, when I did the timing belt on my Evo VIII, I used all OEM parts and had no issues. That being said, I've used gates stuff for years with no issues. Shoot, I even put a Gates timing belt on my Civic and its quite.

Perhaps its a Neon thing. I'm not as concerned as I was before.

Thanks all!
2004 Dodge Neon SXT - MTX
1999 Pontiac Trans Am
1992 Geo Prizm LSi

sold:
2002 Corvette ZO6
2003 Mitsubishi Evo VIII
1998 Camaro SS
1993 Camaro Z28
1988 Suzuki Samurai
1992 Honda Civic Hatchback

gcretro
2GN Member
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:01 pm

Post by gcretro » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:20 pm

Can one of you post a audio clip of this noise? I don't own a camcorder and don't want to post a bad recording since the clarity of the audio is key in this thread

User avatar
bone-yard-racing
2GN Member
Posts: 2328
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:36 pm
Location: York PA
Contact:

Post by bone-yard-racing » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:16 pm

Id do the SRT but I doubt you would hear it it sounds like a deeper pitched belt whine
Image

JKD
2GN Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:33 am
Location: Cookeville, TN

Post by JKD » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:26 pm

UPDATE as promised:

It has been over 8000 miles since the timing belt installation and the car is still running great. In fact, I believe that the sound has lessened since it has broken in.

I will continue to update the thread as the car's mileage increases for the sake of helping others out.

Thanks again,
Jared
2004 Dodge Neon SXT - MTX
1999 Pontiac Trans Am
1992 Geo Prizm LSi

sold:
2002 Corvette ZO6
2003 Mitsubishi Evo VIII
1998 Camaro SS
1993 Camaro Z28
1988 Suzuki Samurai
1992 Honda Civic Hatchback

User avatar
jonnymopar
Junior Admin
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:49 pm
Location: Southeastern MA

Post by jonnymopar » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:12 pm

Yeah, as said before, I don't think you have anything to worry about. I trust Gates, so if I get a little noise as a side effect of using their parts, so be it. It certainly won't make me stop using them.
Image
Jon J.

2003 Neon SXT - new home, new owner. Thanks for everything, old friend.
1989 Daytona ES - 2.4L/A555 swapped

Official "I'm Going To Drive My Neon Until Jerry Buys It" Club Member #11

User avatar
Creep
n00b
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:44 pm
Location: Lansdale,Pa

Post by Creep » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:32 pm

impact gun on your crank pulley bolt crank down on it slowly until your acessory belt flattens out and no longer riding the edge of the pulley. I went by torque specs and had this same problem visually check the belt alignment

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19944
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:29 am

The accessory drive pulley has nothing to do with the timing pulley, in a simple timing belt change. The timing pulley should never move. If it moves freely, there is a serious problem.

That said, I just installed a Gates timing kit on the 1gn, and it is quiet. I even have the adjuster a hair to the tight side of the mark.
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

gcretro
2GN Member
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:01 pm

Post by gcretro » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:47 am

Update from my end: I now have put about 16K miles since the timing belt change, I pretty much have the same noise may be a tad less. I'll try to post a clip.

User avatar
jonnymopar
Junior Admin
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:49 pm
Location: Southeastern MA

Post by jonnymopar » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:14 pm

Over 40k miles on mine. Still get the noise, but it might be a little quieter. Still hammer on it every single day, still no problems, still trust Gates on everything I drive.
Image
Jon J.

2003 Neon SXT - new home, new owner. Thanks for everything, old friend.
1989 Daytona ES - 2.4L/A555 swapped

Official "I'm Going To Drive My Neon Until Jerry Buys It" Club Member #11

illriginalized
2GN Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:04 pm
Location: United States

Post by illriginalized » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:40 pm

lulz... I get the "supercharger" whine too. Just did my timing belt, tensioner, and water pump (all gates, including the "racing" blue timing belt".

I don't mind it at all actually. :D

bherman
n00b
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Illinois

Post by bherman » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:52 pm

I'm bumping this thread up because I just did the whole kit on my girlfriend's 2003 neon. I used the Gate's kit with belt, tensioner, and water pump. I thought I did everything right, the tensioner was a little less than max tension and all 3 belts were on straight and true, but I've got this same whining.

I gather this is normal of the Gate's belt. Can people confirm it's the belt and not the pulley? I'm thinking about tearing back into it and rechecking the window on the tensioner. The noise may be harmless, but it really bothers me and I would like to make it go away. Do you think if I bought the Goodyear belt for the whopping $30 it costs, would that make the whine go away? It really would be worth the $30 to me if that worked, the noise just bothers me that much.

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19944
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:46 pm

You could try backing the adjustment off a little. But once you are at the point of adjusting, you may as well swap the GY belt on, if it bugs you that badly.

I know it wouldn't bother me enough to go through the trouble of taking everything apart again. But then a nagging GF might just do it. :lol:

Some sounds can be more annoying than others. :shock:
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

bherman
n00b
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Illinois

Post by bherman » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:44 am

occasional demons wrote:You could try backing the adjustment off a little. But once you are at the point of adjusting, you may as well swap the GY belt on, if it bugs you that badly.

I know it wouldn't bother me enough to go through the trouble of taking everything apart again. But then a nagging GF might just do it. :lol:

Some sounds can be more annoying than others. :shock:
Thanks! That's kinda what I figured I would do. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and my GF freaks out at the slightest different noise she hears, so I'm gonna make sure I make it quiet.

-Brad

JET_Fusion
n00b
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:05 am

Me Too

Post by JET_Fusion » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:33 pm

Hi

I just replaced all of the same parts with Gates brand in my 2005 SXT: timing belt, tensioner, water pump, a/c belt, acc belt. I get the same sound. I've put 900 miles on it and there's been no change. The sound is sort of a mid-range frequency growl. I remember reading about it here (2GN.ORG) so I wasn't surprised. Even though I made exta certain that I aligned the timing belt, I did watch the timing cover for signs of wear. I also checked the a/c belt and acc belt alignment and they're straight. Before installing everything, I spent time comparing the old timing belt with the new Gates belt side-by-side and the Gates belt felt stronger when I pulled on it and a tad thicker (I didn't mic it though), but this may just have been due to the wear. The Gates also felt heavier. At the time I did wonder if the Gates belt has more copper wire in it?

If it weren't for all of the previous comments on 2GN.ORG I would have taken the whole thing apart just to be sure I didn't mess something up. Trust me when I say I triple checked everything when putting it back together!

---JET_Fusion

bherman
n00b
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:45 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Me Too

Post by bherman » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:08 pm

JET_Fusion wrote: If it weren't for all of the previous comments on 2GN.ORG I would have taken the whole thing apart just to be sure I didn't mess something up. Trust me when I say I triple checked everything when putting it back together!

---JET_Fusion
Yeah mine still hasn't given me any problems as of yet, but the noise just really bothers me. It's definitely got to be the belt itself since so many people have the same issue. I've already got a new Goodyear belt, I just need to get a chance to swap it out. I know the Gates one will hold just fine, but I just can't stand that noise when it should be quiet.

User avatar
jonnymopar
Junior Admin
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:49 pm
Location: Southeastern MA

Post by jonnymopar » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:46 pm

I'm sure its just some subtle little difference in the tooth profile that makes the noise. Hell, that was done on purpose with some aftermarket timing cheater gears on the old pushrod V8's. Not saying that Gates did it on purpose for our cars, but it could be something that simple.
Image
Jon J.

2003 Neon SXT - new home, new owner. Thanks for everything, old friend.
1989 Daytona ES - 2.4L/A555 swapped

Official "I'm Going To Drive My Neon Until Jerry Buys It" Club Member #11

User avatar
stairmaster3001
2GN Member
Posts: 524
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:17 am
Location: mooresville

Post by stairmaster3001 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:29 pm

occasional demons wrote:Could still be the timing belt making the noise. Give it a few miles and see if it fades a bit. IIRC, my belt was a bit noisy when it was new. Usually it is kind of like a supercharger whine when too tight, but it can be just less loud with a new belt/tensioner. The tensioner spring might just need to take a set too.

But without actually hearing said sound, it is all a scientific wild ass guess. :lol:
\
I second driving it a little. I just did a gates timing kit on my nsrt4 and after it seemed to have a similar growling noise for a little but it is gone now. I honestly thing it was just the brand new timing pulleys getting broken in.
Image

Post Reply

Return to “Engine”