Lag in Acceleration going into 2nd

2005.Neon.SXT · Post by **2005.Neon.SXT** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:13 pm

So this has happened to me a few times in the past... never something that really bugged me, but I figured it was time to ask.

This has only ever happened when shifting from 1st into 2nd, but sometimes when I'm accelerating fast, it'll do this "lag"... I'll shift out of 1st, into 2nd, let off the clutch, and punch it... but as I lay down on the pedal, it'll go... then it acts like it's losing power... RPM drops, then it picks up again like nothing happened (but it obviously accelerates slow after that since it's making up for the speed loss). This happens very rarely, than often, and like I said it has never really bothered me... but I just figured I'd ask now.

Anyone have any idea? I tried searching, but didn't really get anything that was fitting the "symptoms" that I get with my car.

Thanks guys.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:45 pm

That's going to be a tough one to solve, without any codes, and being a random thing. Could be the TPS getting bad, but without a scangauge, or something that can capture all the sensor's outputs, etc as it happens it is just going to be a guessing game.

Post by **Canada** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:18 pm

I used to have that problem, what I found was that when I shifted, if I went WOT right away, it would bog, if I went 3/4 throttle,and rolled into it fairly quickly, it wouldn't do it.

2005.Neon.SXT · Post by **2005.Neon.SXT** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:14 am

occasional demons wrote:That's going to be a tough one to solve, without any codes, and being a random thing. Could be the TPS getting bad, but without a scangauge, or something that can capture all the sensor's outputs, etc as it happens it is just going to be a guessing game.

I know this is going to sound lame, but where exactly is the "TPS". I know it stands for Throttle Positioning Sensor (at least I think it does), but not entirely sure where it's at...

My car's an '05 with barely 55k miles on it... so not sure what parts would be getting "worn" at this point. And yea, no MIL. In fact, I've never had the MIL illuminated in my '05. Once in my '95, but that was a cylinder misfire and it went away after a day.

Canada wrote:I used to have that problem, what I found was that when I shifted, if I went WOT right away, it would bog, if I went 3/4 throttle,and rolled into it fairly quickly, it wouldn't do it.

"Bog", that's the word I'm looking for lol. But yea, that's exactly what it does, but it doesn't do it all the time when I WOT through 2nd. It's strange... Just trying to see if anyone's had this experience and what they've done to fix it.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:33 am

Does this happen in a straight line, or when in a turn (like coming off an on ramp)?

2005.Neon.SXT · Post by **2005.Neon.SXT** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:16 pm

Danteneon wrote:Does this happen in a straight line, or when in a turn (like coming off an on ramp)?

Straight line, usually from a light.

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:48 pm

Do you have a CAI? And if so, do you have the breather hose from the back of the valve cover hooked up to it?

Post by **jonnymopar** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:28 pm

I hate giving such a general answer, but it's an NGC thing. It's happened to many owners of 03-05 Neons with 5-speeds. I had the firmware on mine updated in 2006 and although it happens less now, it still happens.

At first I thought it was my CAI, my 60mm throttle body, or a combination of the two. People have had it happen with bone stock setups however.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:31 pm

I'm more interested in where Dante is going with this. "Fished in".

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:00 pm

My thinking was possibly a draw of excess oil entering the intake. Not a lot, just enough to make the car bog slightly.

I had this issuse when I had to plumb mine into the intake for VA safety inspection. I got lazy and didn't switch it back before I took my car for a fun drive. Hammered it off an on ramp and the car bogged so bad I could barely move. Once it picked up again, I was doing my best Spy Hunter impression

I was thinking that a small amount of oil may case the occasional bog.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:23 pm

Makes sense, as oil isn't the most volatile material for combustion in a gasoline engine. It may not be enough to cause a smoke cloud behind the car, or the cat can't clean up as it goes through. (The cat can hide a fair amount of oil burning. The old engine in my GF's Sundance was proof of that. I was more impressed it-the catalytic converter- survived it.)

2005.Neon.SXT · Post by **2005.Neon.SXT** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:39 pm

Danteneon wrote:Do you have a CAI? And if so, do you have the breather hose from the back of the valve cover hooked up to it?

I believe I know what you're talking about... wish I had a better picture of my engine bay right now, but eh... Anyhow, the answer is "yes".

What should I do instead of using that hose?

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:45 pm

I think the problem with the oil is more from the PCV valve hose to the IM. The air make up hose can drip oil, but it is nothing near what the PCV can do. A functional catch can is the only solution.

2005.Neon.SXT · Post by **2005.Neon.SXT** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:10 pm

occasional demons wrote:I think the problem with the oil is more from the PCV valve hose to the IM. The air make up hose can drip oil, but it is nothing near what the PCV can do. A functional catch can is the only solution.

I actually was thinking about just buying a cheap catch can for one of the many things I want to do this Spring, but couldn't justify the usefulness. You think this would help, or be worth it? And to make sure, the PCV is on the right side of the valve cover (and the hose from the CAI goes to the one in the back left of the coil pack?)

I appreciate all of your help so far!

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:11 pm

Correct. Catch can goes in the PCV line.

2005.Neon.SXT · Post by **2005.Neon.SXT** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:19 pm

occasional demons wrote:Correct. Catch can goes in the PCV line.

I actually was just making sure that those were what those ports were in the Valve Cover lol. I tend to get PCV's mixed up from time to time when I do Inspections at the shop lol... lame, I know haha.

Anyway, so getting an oil catch can may fix the issue? Since what you are saying is that the PCV is more than likely dripping more oil than the air hose (that goes into the CAI) is?

This is all interesting to me, rofl... learn something new everyday.

bigtommy83 · Post by **bigtommy83** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:21 pm

I've been having this same problem on occasion. 1st to 2nd. while in the midst of trying to diagnose another issue I am having, I have replaced the tps, iac, battery, map sensor, air filter, converter, both O2 sensors, plugs, wires, coil pack, checked fuel pressure. Nothing I have done has taken care of this "bogging" problem.

2005.Neon.SXT · Post by **2005.Neon.SXT** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:23 pm

bigtommy83 wrote:I've been having this same problem on occasion. 1st to 2nd. while in the midst of trying to diagnose another issue I am having, I have replaced the tps, iac, battery, map sensor, air filter, converter, both O2 sensors, plugs, wires, coil pack, checked fuel pressure. Nothing I have done has taken care of this "bogging" problem.

Perhaps you and I should both install oil catch cans to see if that fixes it. I'm not about to do all the things you've done to fix that issue

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:24 pm

I was saying correct to your locations, But I guess I should have quoted you.

The PCV moves the water/oil vapor from the valve cover, so yes it is putting more oil into the IM. The only time the air make up will let oil vapors out, is at WOT or near WOT when the manifold vacuum is low. The PCV has no vacuum to work with during those times, so the crankcase pressure may be enough to come out the air make up.

2005.Neon.SXT · Post by **2005.Neon.SXT** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:31 pm

occasional demons wrote:I was saying correct to your locations, But I guess I should have quoted you.

The PCV moves the water/oil vapor from the valve cover, so yes it is putting more oil into the IM. The only time the air make up will let oil vapors out, is at WOT or near WOT when the manifold vacuum is low. The PCV has no vacuum to work with during those times, so the crankcase pressure may be enough to come out the air make up.

So here's something I've wondered... why do some people, and I've actually only really seen it on SRT-4's, put a breather on the PCV? I obviously will prefer to get the oil catch can so I don't throw any codes, but wouldn't the breather get dirty with oil over time? It just seems like a waste to have to buy a breather every so often when you can just empty the catch can much easier.

00Neon RCR · Post by **00Neon RCR** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:47 pm

2005.Neon.SXT wrote:
occasional demons wrote:I was saying correct to your locations, But I guess I should have quoted you.

The PCV moves the water/oil vapor from the valve cover, so yes it is putting more oil into the IM. The only time the air make up will let oil vapors out, is at WOT or near WOT when the manifold vacuum is low. The PCV has no vacuum to work with during those times, so the crankcase pressure may be enough to come out the air make up.
So here's something I've wondered... why do some people, and I've actually only really seen it on SRT-4's, put a breather on the PCV? I obviously will prefer to get the oil catch can so I don't throw any codes, but wouldn't the breather get dirty with oil over time? It just seems like a waste to have to buy a breather every so often when you can just empty the catch can much easier.

See post #7

The back hose from the valve cover is a breather hose that connects into your intake. Some guys put breathers on there. NOT the PCV valve. Blowby comes from the PCV valve NOT the breather hole therefore, the breather you say you see on SRT's would NOT become dirty. Hence why some SRTs not Only have the breather BUT the catch can as well!

Post by **occasional demons** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:55 am

Blowby will come out the air make up breather. Especially if the rings are getting tired. The PCV can only remove so much. And like I said, at low vacuum, the PCV isn't pulling a lot of anything. That extra positive pressure has to go somewhere. So yes it can get oily/dirty. If you put an elbow on to point it upwards, it will help a little.