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small puddle of oil in the intake
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:41 pm
by gcretro
2004 Neon SE
I removed the throttle body from the plastic header.
To my surprise I found a small puddle of oil in the mount of the intake manifold (right below where the PCV hose connects on the intake).
Whats the deal? is my PCV vale bad or something major? There was enough to almost soak up one piece of hand towel
Re: small puddle of oil in the intake
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:48 pm
by quicksilvr
gcretro wrote:2004 Neon SE
I removed the throttle body from the plastic header.
To my surprise I found a small puddle of oil in the mount of the intake manifold (right below where the PCV hose connects on the intake).
Whats the deal? is my PCV vale bad or something major? There was enough to almost soak up one piece of hand towel
That's 100% normal. Even with a good PCV, you will have oil in your intake. If you have never replaced your PCV, you should go ahead and replace it, but you will still get some oil in the intake.
It's a bad design from the factory. Every time you turn hard to the right (especially at higher rpm), oil gets puked through the PCV.
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:35 pm
by C1DoG
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:51 pm
by gcretro
Wierd. but thanks.
Any downside to blocking the PCV?
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:19 pm
by C1DoG
It is critical that the parts of the PCV system be kept clean and open, otherwise air flow will be insufficient. A plugged or malfunctioning PCV system will eventually damage an engine.
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:08 pm
by occasional demons
If you want the inside of your engine to be gooped up with white sludge....
It draws the moisture, and combustion blow by from the crankcase. If the water content gets high enough in the oil, it will turn to white goo. It won't lubricate too well.
I run my PCV line through a cooler. I drain about 50/50 water and oil. The catch can on the GF's 3.0 liter Sundance collects mainly water. And it doesn't have a cooler to condense the vapors.
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:28 pm
by quicksilvr
occasional demons wrote:If you want the inside of your engine to be gooped up with white sludge....
It draws the moisture, and combustion blow by from the crankcase. If the water content gets high enough in the oil, it will turn to white goo. It won't lubricate too well.
I run my PCV line through a cooler. I drain about 50/50 water and oil. The catch can on the GF's 3.0 liter Sundance collects mainly water. And it doesn't have a cooler to condense the vapors.
Bill what kind of cooler do you use, and where did you mount it? I find this idea intriguing...
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:49 pm
by occasional demons
It is an ATF cooler from an old radiator tank. I mounted it in the cowl.
I don't have any pics of it tho.
I bypass it in the winter to keep the water from freezing.
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:04 am
by C1DoG
occasional demons wrote:
If the water content gets high enough in the oil, it will turn to white goo. It won't lubricate too well.
Before my engine got replaced, I had plenty of the white goop showing up in my air/oil seperator. I had to drain it quite a few times.
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:15 pm
by occasional demons
Better in the catch can than the engine. That is exactly what will become of the oil if the PCV is not working.
In the old days, they just used a tube that went down under the car, that used the air going by it to create a vacuum to draw the vapors out.
What we have now is courtesy of EPA not wanting the "fumes" in the air.
PCV systems that use manifold vacuum to suck the vapors into the intake manifold began on military vehicles in the late 40's or early 50's. Civilian cars, I think were around the early 60's. I know the 1957 315 I have, has the draft tube. Our '52 M37 has a crude PVC system.
The real reason for military vehicles having it sooner, has more to do with fording depth, than emissions reasons.
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:39 am
by gcretro
So what the issue if there is some oil in the intake?
Should i bother to remove the intake and clean? seems to be a pain.
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:04 am
by dblsg
gcretro wrote:So what the issue if there is some oil in the intake?
Should i bother to remove the intake and clean? seems to be a pain.
i don't think removing is necessary, but it won't hurt.
i would just try to clean as much of at as possibe and throw in a "catch can" to keep it from happening again
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:39 pm
by lilnicko11
catch can = problem solved
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:25 pm
by occasional demons
A catch can won't 100% solve the issue, but it will help. As long as the vapors are still hot enough, they will not collect in the catch can. It is like trying to separate steam from air in a coffee can. Until it cools, steam will still come out the other side.
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:51 pm
by quicksilvr
occasional demons wrote:A catch can won't 100% solve the issue, but it will help. As long as the vapors are still hot enough, they will not collect in the catch can. It is like trying to separate steam from air in a coffee can. Until it cools, steam will still come out the other side.
Exactly. A cheap catch can off eBay catches about 4 drips of oil in a year. Pretty worthless.
An actual air/oil separator is a better choice.
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:23 pm
by sneakers O'toole
using a 1gn valve cover/PCV set up will help as well.... as far as the oil puking out the side at least.
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:27 pm
by jonnymopar
sneakers O'toole wrote:using a 1gn valve cover/PCV set up will help as well.... as far as the oil puking out the side at least.
This. I installed a 1st gen valve cover years ago and it completely eliminated the oil in the intake, no matter how hard I take an exit ramp.
Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 5:13 pm
by gcretro
So what are the ill effects of a little oil in the Intake?
My 04 Neon SE has 104K now. I don't know if the plastic intake manifold on the inside inside is all messy & gummy from all the oil over the years!
What's an effective way to clean without removing it? (Remove the throttle body and spray into the hole with brake parts cleaner and it dry over night?)
Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 6:00 pm
by quicksilvr
gcretro wrote:So what are the ill effects of a little oil in the Intake?
My 04 Neon SE has 104K now. I don't know if the plastic intake manifold on the inside inside is all messy & gummy from all the oil over the years!
What's an effective way to clean without removing it? (Remove the throttle body and spray into the hole with brake parts cleaner and it dry over night?)
Only way to clean it is to stick a rag in there and let it soak up. Spraying something into the intake is just going to either sit there too...or evaporate and leave the oil.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:43 am
by occasional demons
Just don't forget to pull the rag(s) out.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:51 pm
by gcretro
nah I don't think a rag would reach far enough get all out. if these motors are know to puke oil since new then at 104K miles, there must be a lot of crap in there....
Is it worth removing the intake & cleaning. There seem to be two nuts under/back side of the intake that will be difficult to reach. Might have to try it from under the car.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:19 pm
by racer12306
You would need a stick of some sort to get all the way in there.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:43 pm
by quicksilvr
gcretro wrote:nah I don't think a rag would reach far enough get all out. if these motors are know to puke oil since new then at 104K miles, there must be a lot of crap in there....
Is it worth removing the intake & cleaning. There seem to be two nuts under/back side of the intake that will be difficult to reach. Might have to try it from under the car.
Yes a rag is the only way to do it. Trust me, I've done it more than once. You can take the intake all the way off if you want, but it's a waste of time.
racer12306 wrote:You would need a stick of some sort to get all the way in there.
I prefer a nice crumbly elm stick from my front yard.....
Actually, one of those flexy grabber things works great, cause you don't lose the rag.