***car bogs on start up -> Still doing it...NEED help/ide

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:33 pm

http://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/MAP_adjuster.html

You could try tweaking the MAP voltage to match the increased air flow, or the TPS voltage a bit higher. The window may be smaller on the TPS, if it reads too high at WOT, it will set a code. The ideal situation is to get it to show max allowable voltage from say 3/4 throttle, to full throttle. But you would need a "MAP clamp" for the TPS to accomplish that. Plus some hit and miss experimenting.

Like I said before, this is where a programmable e-throttle would shine. If it could control the throttle position to keep the MAP value at the optimum level, you would get the best power from a 60mm (or larger) TB.

Jerome Adams · Post by **Jerome Adams** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:55 pm

Danteneon wrote:Ouch. Sorry to hear that you have to go back to a stock TB. But if it gives you less headaches, the loss of throttle response is a fair trade.

Yeah...a few hp and some throttle response is a small price to pay for a car that actually works. Plus I should have picked up more hp than I lost (mag intake, mag head, and comp 400 > 60mm tb). Would have liked to keep it, but it isn't worth the trouble of trying to make it work. I know others more skilled than I have tried to solve the P0068 with the 60mm TB and failed.

It is better to have 60mm'ed and lost than to never have 60mm'ed at all...

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:00 pm

To my knowledge, no one has tried adjusting the MAP, or TPS voltage to work around this problem. It has been mentioned a lot, but I think that's about as far as it gets. I would try it, but I don't haz a NGC car to play with.

Cost for the parts would be about $10. If you can solder, effort would be minimal.

Jerome Adams · Post by **Jerome Adams** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:16 pm

this is what I was basing it off...

MoxHair wrote:0068.. DUN DUN DUN

It's a horror story code.

It will come back.

There is no cure. So dig a hole and stick that TB 6 feet under.

I've personally have dealt with this code. Nothing worked, Not a ECU reflash, not a Map Clamp, Not new Vacuum Hoses, nothing.. I tried everything.

Good Luck

I have had the car out several times today running the same route that would almost always make the code come back and despite my best efforts I can't get the code to come back.

Yeah, it is fixed...no more P0068 and no more throttle response, and less pull

I may have to do research on this map clamp thing and learn some 'lectronics.

Jerome Adams · Post by **Jerome Adams** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:31 pm

so I advanced the cam gear a couple of degrees and now it pulls better. The last 2 mornings it has bogged after startup and then just chokes bigtime at 2500 RPM until I clutch in and rev it up...once it warms up, it seems to go away. This morning when it bogged I just floored it and it did NOTHING, no rev, no spit and sputter...nothing, sounded like the car wasn't even running but it never shut off, no exhaust tone...nothing???

This is how the shit started before...no new codes....yet. Honestly I am at a loss. Really getting frustrated.

Jerome Adams · Post by **Jerome Adams** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:44 pm

Replaced the upstream O2 and it is running better now...hopefully it will last for awhile!

NEON PARABOLA · Post by **NEON PARABOLA** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:39 pm

damn man, that sucks.

Jerome Adams · Post by **Jerome Adams** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:49 pm

more frustrating than anything. Everything has been relatively cheap so far (TPS, MAP, O2) but everytime I think I got it solved it ends up acting up again.

NGC is suppose to be smart, it needs to figure my shit out! LOL

Jerome Adams · Post by **Jerome Adams** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:50 pm

Doing it again! Car starts fine, and then I take off, within a minute or 2 it starts to miss and run like shit. Clutch in rev it up, let it out and BOOOGGGG, clutch in rev it up...let it out...spit sputter lurch...stomp the go pedal to the floor....lurch lurch sputter rev....take off like mad! Then it seems fine. It is worse on cold crappy weather days.

I have replaced the TPS, MAP, and the upstream O2. I also have a new Granatelli coil, and new NGK plugs. I am at a fuckin loss. I am going to pull the plugs and see if there are any clues, but I dont know what else it could be? Fuel pump? fuel filter/fuel pressure regulator?

I have a P0551 for the power steering switch and a P0038 for the downstream O2 being dorked but I have had those for years.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:23 pm

An intake to head leak would be a consistent problem, so I doubt it is that.
How is the header? Any leaks there? (As in outside air screwing with the o2)

Fuel pressure is a possibility, it won't directly set a code, if the problem is brief enough...

Jerome Adams · Post by **Jerome Adams** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:34 pm

I will retorque the new O2 to make sure it is snug and check the header bolts.

What about a bad PCV valve?

I am going to go over it again in the am and see if I can think of anything.

I pulled the plugs and they had real light white deposits. I also set the backed off the cam timing from 3° advance to 2° advance.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:42 pm

IDK if a bad PCV valve would cause a bad enough vacuum leak to affect it, unless it somehow sucked the inner part out. Then it would be back to a consistent problem.

You could plug the hose, and eliminate it for test purposes.

As for the exhaust I was leaning more towards a cracked header, or the gasket. As long as the o2 is snug, it shouldn't let any air in.

When the header was cracked on my Jeep it gave me all sorts of symptoms, and no codes. Lateif went through a similar problem with a cracked manifold on his neon. Basically why I mentioned an exhaust leak. The leak has to be upstream of/near the o2 tho.

Jerome Adams · Post by **Jerome Adams** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:53 am

Occasionally I get a real strong exhaust smell inside the car, but haven't been able to find a leak as of yet. I just removed my old, deteriorated, header wrap the other day so I will give it a good look while poking around today.

PCV valves are pretty cheap and I am sure mine has never been replaced (107K) so I will swap that out too.

Jerome Adams · Post by **Jerome Adams** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:45 pm

Did a quick run to the store today and it acted up again. The P0132 (upstream O2 circuit heater high) is back...was reading in another thread that the upstream grounds thru the downstream...guess I will try and replace the downstream too.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:42 pm

I think they just share the same ground through the PCM, not necessarily through one or the other. They would potentially both fail if one depended on the other. The down stream's heater may be affecting the upstream heater in some way, if it is still plugged in.

The heater circuit is different than the feedback circuit. If it is not firing off soon enough, due to not reaching temp, it could be contributing to the cold start/run part of the problem.

With the internal heater, the 02 should be sending feedback (closed loop) in less than a minute. Without the heater, it relies solely on exhaust temp to reach closed loop operation. Which could take minutes.

Jerome Adams · Post by **Jerome Adams** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:50 pm

I have had that P0038 code forever so not sure why it would be a problem now, but want to switch it out just in case.

picked up the new downstream O2 and it wont fit. The Bosch is a good half inch longer and it hits the tunnel (I have an OBX LTH). I have to swap it out tomorrow and see if there is a universal that is shorter (I have to extend the wires anyway) or I will have to go to the dealer and get an OEM replacement for...

ONE MILLION DOLLARS

What does the downstream O2 do anyways? Checks to see if the cat is working and long term fuel trims? I have been running with the P0038 for so long I don't think it matters too much.

Jerome Adams · Post by **Jerome Adams** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:22 pm

Spliced together my old downstream )2 and no code

The wire had frayed and was corroded. Swapped out the new upstream Bosche for a new Denso (better and cheaper...make sure you go with them for any O2 replacements you may need). Have yet to go out for a test drive to see if my codes are gone. Either way, I got an appt for the dyno tomorrow at 10, unless the car dies before i get there.

Oh and since I have been under the hood and under the car so much, I picked me up one of these bad boys today...

http://www.harborfreight.com/rapid-pump ... 68054.html[/img]