2GN.ORG

About 3 weeks ago my car started bogging and stuttering. It was terrible when cold, and still pretty bad once warmed up. You'd think it was about to blow up

I "cleaned" the fuel system, thinking right away it was the fuel filter. That did nothing so I went and changed my plugs, they were due anyways. The problem stopped for maybe 2 or 3 days, but then came back

Now, it'll bog and stutter under 2,000 rpm and over 3,700 rpm. This means that it feels as if it's going to stall out at every single red light, as if I have the A/C on full blast.

It feels like it's just not getting fuel, or the fuel is being cut off... I'm thinking maybe injectors? idk :/

help?

how old is the coil? When mine failed it did all kinds of wierd stuff, similar to what you are describing.

Have you checked for codes?

Mine had a similar problem I took the same steps as you. It turned out to be my MAP sensor.

Depends on if there are any codes, and what they are. A MAP sensor will set codes, as you know, as where a weak coil will not. I have had a bad "Performance" coil, it ran like crap, backfired through the intake, and I didn't get the first code.

Heck, I should have gotten some kind of code for the positive pressure in the IM. But more than likely, the duration of the "boost" prolly wasn't long enough to register.

ThatKevin, since the fresh plugs seemed to temporarily cure it, I would focus more on the coil, and the plug wires. All in all, the stock coil is the most reliable, but they all can't be perfect. If you have an MSD, Accel, or other aftermarket coil, it could very well be the cause. the coil I had was an Accel. It lasted a whopping 5000 miles. My original coil is back on, with over 170,000.

Did you check the plugs for proper gap?

I'm with Bill on this one. My 2000 ES did this when I had a Screamin Demon coil on it with only 7,000 miles. Went back to the stock coil and have had no problems since. When you changed the plugs, was there any oil in the sparkplug tubes? If they are leaking excessively that could be trouble too. If you have a buddy with a neon, ask him if you can swap coils with him for a short time. That could give you the answer you are looking for.

Well my next thing was to change out the coil pack and/or wires. I just didn't want to throw parts at it (even though they are pretty minor and easy to switch out )

I did check for oil, I read that in one of the threads when I did a search 2 weeks ago (I know I actually searched before I posted )

As for the gapping.. it got a little interesting. I gapped the new ones to 35, but noticed the old ones were gapped at 45. I then went and drove through a tank and noticed that my gas mileage was just absolutely fucked. Thinking it was the plugs I quickly gapped them at 45, right away it started bogging. So once again I re gapped at 35 (I figured out it was the ski/snowboard part of my roof rack that was eating my gas). A few days later and it started stuttering/bogging again.

And here I am ..

edit:

I currently have my stock coil pack on, I'm going to assume it is the original coil pack (I hope it's not though seeing how my car has 281 xxx km).

and just to throw this out there, I just ate through another tank... I got 304 km for about 38 litres which translates to roughly 180 miles for 10 gallons (I think I did that right).

What type of replacement plugs did you use, out of curiosity? Also, winter gas sucks for mileage, as does cold weather. Both of which are likely contributing to the lower fuel economy you are seeing.

champions (copper), that's also what was in there before too.

as for gas mileage I know winter sucks for it, I normally get about 350km per tank in the winter vs 380km in the summer. I know it's the roof rack because I took it off and got my normal mileage -___-

Meh, the cold hasn't had that big of an impact on mine. I'm still seeing nearly the same mileage as the summer. I average close to 200 miles to the half tank mark. It has stayed pretty consistent. Granted you can't get exactly the same amount in at fill up, but the miles to half rarely changes more than 20 to 30 miles. Of course an ATX prolly won't get that.

Upstream O2 sensor

it's getting a little worse so I went to the stealership today and the coil pack is $90 (cdn)... I really don't wanna spend the money on it

Especially if it isn't the coil pack that's the issue

Get a used one from a JY, or if someone here has a stock one for sale. I got a spare one from a member on here for $15, and a hammer.

Once the mileage gets up there like mine, a spare coil and CPS are nice to have in the trunk.

Rock Auto has a cheap one for $38 plus shipping. it beats $90 if you don't want to go to a JY. It can't do any worse than an Accel or MSD coil. AZ is $76, so not a big improvement over the dealer there.

So I said fuck it and just went and picked up the coil pack. It was getting worse and I had plans to make an hour and a half trip up north to go skiing, so I wanted this fixed.

I put on the new coil pack and it's doing the exact same thing, but now it's throwing me two codes:

P 1684
P 0301

Just need to figure these out now

*EDIT

just found that P 1684 was that the battery was disconnected within the last 50 key cycles

P 0301 seems to be misfire in cylinder 1 (if I searched and read correctly)..

what could be the cause of this now? My plugs are new, the wires seem good still, the wires are all connected properly, new coil pack -_____-

I'm currently reading this thread: viewtopic.php?t=16381&highlight=0301 and it seems to be the same problem I'm having

**Another edit

swapped the wires for cylinder 1 and 4 and it's still showing misfire in cylinder 1

Plug wires or something serious.

Maybe the injector is bad? You could try swapping with another cylinder and see if the misfire moves.

esteinmaier wrote:Plug wires or something serious.

That's what I was thinking

Donkeypuncher wrote:Maybe the injector is bad? You could try swapping with another cylinder and see if the misfire moves.

I just got home, I thought about doing that but I'm working all day tomorrow. I may just try it now...

finally got around to switching the injectors...

swapped them and I'm still getting P 0301 :'(

Time to bring it to my mechanic I guess -___-


but on a side note, P 1684 is gone

Maybe it's time for a compression and leak down test?

I had no choice but to drive my car today. I drove about 25km (20 minutes) and there wasn't a single issue. It drove as if nothing had ever happened, but the CEL is still on...

Did you reset the PCM each time?

occasional demons wrote:Did you reset the PCM each time?

nope. didn't even think of that

occasional demons wrote:Once the mileage gets up there like mine, a spare coil and CPS are nice to have in the trunk.

Hey Bill outa curiosity how long approx should a stock coil last? and whats a CPS? thanx mate

Well on my way home it started doing it again.. all the same symptoms.

After searching I was wondering if anyone could tell me the best way to reset the ecu

Alex Kurdian wrote:

occasional demons wrote:Once the mileage gets up there like mine, a spare coil and CPS are nice to have in the trunk.

Hey Bill outa curiosity how long approx should a stock coil last? and whats a CPS? thanx mate

CPS = Cam Position Sensor

The coil, like most other electronic things can last for over a million miles, or 10. You just don't really know.

ThatKevin wrote:Well on my way home it started doing it again.. all the same symptoms.

After searching I was wondering if anyone could tell me the best way to reset the ecu

Some say pull the fuel pump fuse, but I unhook the battery, and turn on the headlight switch, or whatever you wish, to totally drain the capacitors, shut off the light switch, and reconnect the battery.

If the problem returned, resetting the PCM will not help.

I would think a plug wire would be more consistent if that was the problem. But it could still intermittently arc from the boot to the spark plug tube.

If it was the coil, it should/would be two cylinders giving you problems.

You may have a bad injector connector, or power/ground wire. (The common is + 12v power. The PCM grounds them sequentially)

You may be able to use a test light to see if it is blinking, to test the wires at the connector. At least in theory. That did not work on the GF's '94 Sundance. (It was clogged injectors in that case, all else was fine)
I would say swap connectors, but I don't think they would reach. It would not idle perfect, but it will run, the fuel just won't be at the best atomization when pushed past the intake valve. After 2000 rpm, it really won't make much difference.

A lifter may be going bad also, but it should make some noise if it is not holding oil. If it isn't bleeding off oil, it may pump up, and hold the valve open a bit, but it would have to be the exhaust valve in this situation, because you haven't mentioned popping out the intake.

A bad IM gasket, I don't see it resealing.

well that's a lot...

I'm bringing it to my buddy/mechanic tomorrow, so we'll see what happens :/

Thanks for the help though, really appreciate it