Torque strut replacement alternatives: looking for OPINIONS

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Arro
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Torque strut replacement alternatives: looking for OPINIONS

Post by Arro » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:04 pm

I have the top/bottom AGP's on my 2000 Neon, and they're a great part, no doubt. But yes, there is a lot of vibration when you start up from the stoplight or are at idle.

The torque struts on my SRT-4 are broken. No surprise eh? I want my SRT-4 to be more of a daily driver type of car. Therefore, I've decided I don't want the AGP's on my engine. I also don't want to be replacing torque struts later.

My question is: are the Energy Suspension urethane inserts worth it? Is there only a little vibration increase, or is it almost the same as the AGP dogbone-style parts? I figure the ES urethane inserts will prevent the oem torque struts from breaking pretty much ever again, but I have no experience with them.

Advice requested, thanks in advance.
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it.
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occasional demons
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Post by occasional demons » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:37 pm

Your best bet is to get new torque struts, and fill them with epoxy casting compound.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#casting-compounds/=ldaba8

It will fully support the oem rubber, and still absorb vibrations.

Window Weld didn't hold up at all on the 1gn, the crap squished out after a week. It costs only slightly less than what I have linked above.
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

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Post by Canada » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:43 am

How hard did you get it Bill?

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Post by occasional demons » Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:08 am

:shock:






















I haven't actually ordered any. (Yet) But have seen the link before. I think the Mopar Performance rubber mounts were in the 65 durometer range? So I guess if you want something "streetable" start there?

Tho if retaining the oem rubber and just filling, you would probably get away with the harder stuff. IDK how well the 40A would stay in the mount, maybe if you had a way to put a large fender washer on each side to retain it, it might work well to help support the oem rubber, but I would imagine it would still allow for movement.

IIRC, ES sells an epoxy kit also.
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

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Post by DetergentCandy » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:36 pm

I don't have much vibration at all with my solid mounts O.o
Everyone says how much they vibrate though...
02 Neon R/T(Blackula) - Old and busted
05 SRT-4(Serenity) - Sold
20th Anniversary Golf GTI - Sold
05 SRT-4 - New hotness


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Arro
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Post by Arro » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:45 pm

I don't share that last opinion... I have the AGP dogbones on my 2000 2GN and there is a lot of vibration transmitted through the chassis when you start up off the line, start the car, downshift, etc.

I think ill give the mopar ones a go.
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it.
- A - R - R - O - 2000 - NEON SE - // - 2003 - SRT-4 -
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Post by NickKo » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:30 pm

occasional demons wrote:Your best bet is to get new torque struts, and fill them with epoxy casting compound.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#casting-compounds/=ldaba8

It will fully support the oem rubber, and still absorb vibrations.
Sounds like what I am looking for.
THANKS for the tip, Bill !! :thumbup: :thumbup:

If it turns out the Energy Suspension inserts are a bit too much for vibration, I am going to try this.


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-2000 Ply.LX w/MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 exh.; 60mm T/B
-2001 ATX w/Syked PCM + Magnum header
-2001 ACR w/SRT T/B bored out to 55mm

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Post by Donkeypuncher » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:12 pm

The Prothane street inserts are good too, I didn't notice much extra vibration. The race inserts are pretty rough from what I've heard.

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Post by Arro » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:54 pm

Interesting. Well let's see what Nick says when he puts in Energy Suspension inserts... Nick, when is that gonna happen? In the near future?
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it.
- A - R - R - O - 2000 - NEON SE - // - 2003 - SRT-4 -
Cardomain: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2651950
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Post by NickKo » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:28 pm

Arro wrote:Interesting. Well let's see what Nick says when he puts in Energy Suspension inserts... Nick, when is that gonna happen? In the near future?
They're installed 'now'.... BUT I have not driven the car, since they were installed....
The poor car is in the garage, waiting for a bunch of work. :(

HOWEVER, I can say that when I start the car 'occasionally' and let it idle - to keep the fluids moving - I haven't noticed any extra vibrations. ( Unlike my 1st gen / '98 Neon.) :)


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-2000 Ply.LX w/MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 exh.; 60mm T/B
-2001 ATX w/Syked PCM + Magnum header
-2001 ACR w/SRT T/B bored out to 55mm

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Post by occasional demons » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:26 am

Ordered this stuff to patch concrete at work. I think it is safe to say you would get about the same results as welding it up solid. You would only have whatever oem rubber webbing you left in the mount as vibration/movement absorption. This stuff is basically like a damn rock, which is perfect for what I used it for. :lol:

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Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

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Post by INVUJerry » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:20 am

Also, if your middle mount is busted your torque arms will transmit more vibrations. Might want to look into replacing that on your 2000 if you haven't yet.
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Post by GroceryGetter » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:04 am

I have the 'race' inserts in my torque struts and I don't see any real vibration. Most 2gn Neons with any vibration have a bad motor mount.
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Post by Hudson_Neon » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:33 pm

i have the "street" inserts. no extra vibrations that i've noticed beyond the typical heavily modded engine vibrations...

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Post by NickKo » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:35 pm

GroceryGetter wrote:I have the 'race' inserts in my torque struts and I don't see any real vibration. Most 2gn Neons with any vibration have a bad motor mount.
Agreed - For what it is worth, I have *heard* that if you use *new* motor mounts, along with Inserts - The vibrations will be very minimal, or non-existent.
If you install inserts, with worn / sagging motor mounts, that's when you you should expect to feel excessive vibrations.

'Excessive' is a subjective term.
Some folks don't care at all - Others, don't like them.
Myself, I would rather have my Neons idle smoothly.


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-2000 Ply.LX w/MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 exh.; 60mm T/B
-2001 ATX w/Syked PCM + Magnum header
-2001 ACR w/SRT T/B bored out to 55mm

Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #000009

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Post by Arro » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:42 pm

Trying to understand that... they sag a bit, then the inserts will simply force them back into position, wouldn't they? I figured the inserts would give the stability to the mount, and the original rubber parts would then just be cushioning between the urethane insert parts.
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it.
- A - R - R - O - 2000 - NEON SE - // - 2003 - SRT-4 -
Cardomain: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2651950
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NickKo
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Post by NickKo » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:17 pm

Arro wrote:Trying to understand that... they sag a bit, then the inserts will simply force them back into position, wouldn't they?
Well, as I understand it.... Using inserts on new motor mounts, will keep them, from 'sagging'.... While preventing or keeping vibrations to a minimum.


- Nick
-1998 2-dr SOHC MTX= 57mm TB; Maddog STS
-2000 Ply.LX w/MTX = Maddog STS; CAI; 2.5 exh.; 60mm T/B
-2001 ATX w/Syked PCM + Magnum header
-2001 ACR w/SRT T/B bored out to 55mm

Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #000009

occasional demons
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Post by occasional demons » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:22 pm

Also new center and transaxle mounts might have been what was meant.

When I put inserts into my tires torque struts, the torque load then went to the actual (weight) load bearing mounts. After I replaced them, it made a big difference in the feel of acceleration.
Bill
Probably shouldn't listen to anything your penis says, that guy's a dick.
Patience, of course, is a very powerful weapon, but sometimes I start to regret that it is not a firearm.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap

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Post by Arro » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:23 pm

So in other words, if I put in unbroken torque struts w/ Energy Suspension inserts and it vibrates a lot, change the mount in the center of the side of the engine bay (the PITA one to get to).
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it.
- A - R - R - O - 2000 - NEON SE - // - 2003 - SRT-4 -
Cardomain: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2651950
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Post by Hudson_Neon » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:45 pm

make sure you install the torque strut to specs. it will eliminate vibrations a lot

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Post by Arro » Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:03 am

I don't understand... "to specs"? It's just one bolt on either end, right? I don't see how you can "adjust" the positioning. When I installed the AGP dogbones on my 2000 ES, I just, well, unbolted the old stockers and bolted in the new ones.

Speaking of which, a couple questions...

First, I read somewhere on here I believe that you have to "adjust your engine" when you install mounts and that it has an affect on shifting. I can understand how the position of the engine can alter the engagement point of shift cables... but I don't see how you can change that. Or are they talking about adjusting the cables not the engine? My 2000 is an automatic so I suppose it makes no difference but this SRT is manual trans.

Second, I am getting the impression from looking at MPx's site that the torque strut mounts are the same for both SOHC and the SRT-4 Neons... did I finally catch on to something you all already knew? Is that the case?

I obtained some SRT-4 (or.... simply just 2GN...?) replacement torque strut mounts from a guy on srtforums, and they look like they're in great condition. So yesterday I ordered the Prothane inserts since reading about the ES versions the testimonials talk about failure. So I'll be running Prothane race inserts in what appear to be still-healthy torque struts.

I can't stand the ugly casting tho (looks like it's scratched but it's part of the mold and de-burring process I'm sure) so this weekend I'm gonna media blast them them sand them smooth. Maybe even polish them up.
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it.
- A - R - R - O - 2000 - NEON SE - // - 2003 - SRT-4 -
Cardomain: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2651950
Image
Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #22

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Post by Hudson_Neon » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:32 am

Arro wrote:I don't understand... "to specs"? It's just one bolt on either end, right? I don't see how you can "adjust" the positioning. When I installed the AGP dogbones on my 2000 ES, I just, well, unbolted the old stockers and bolted in the new ones.

Speaking of which, a couple questions...

First, I read somewhere on here I believe that you have to "adjust your engine" when you install mounts and that it has an affect on shifting. I can understand how the position of the engine can alter the engagement point of shift cables... but I don't see how you can change that. Or are they talking about adjusting the cables not the engine? My 2000 is an automatic so I suppose it makes no difference but this SRT is manual trans.

Second, I am getting the impression from looking at MPx's site that the torque strut mounts are the same for both SOHC and the SRT-4 Neons... did I finally catch on to something you all already knew? Is that the case?

I obtained some SRT-4 (or.... simply just 2GN...?) replacement torque strut mounts from a guy on srtforums, and they look like they're in great condition. So yesterday I ordered the Prothane inserts since reading about the ES versions the testimonials talk about failure. So I'll be running Prothane race inserts in what appear to be still-healthy torque struts.

I can't stand the ugly casting tho (looks like it's scratched but it's part of the mold and de-burring process I'm sure) so this weekend I'm gonna media blast them them sand them smooth. Maybe even polish them up.
first, the side of the torque strut on the car is slightly slotted and allows for adjustment. the purpose is to make the engine perfectly vertical. the action involved with combustion engines, mainly in an inline formation, can cause vibrations. just loosen up the side on the car and get a friend to help man handle the engine to the properly measured position as seen in my previous post

second, yes. torque struts and center engine mounts are the same on all 2gn neons. the only difference is the tranny mount

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Post by Arro » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:26 pm

Cool! Thanks for the clarification :thumbup:
Drive it like you stole it, and work on it like you married it.
- A - R - R - O - 2000 - NEON SE - // - 2003 - SRT-4 -
Cardomain: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2651950
Image
Official "I'm Going to Drive My Neon till it Dies" Club #22

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