P2302 and P2305 Giving me hell

This is the place to ask questions about your engine components like cams, valves, pistons… just anything that is generally "engine" specific. This also includes questions about exhaust systems such as exhaust manifolds, piping size, mufflers, ect...
User avatar
akirony
2GN Member
Posts: 439
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:07 pm
Location: dallas

P2302 and P2305 Giving me hell

Post by akirony » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:09 am

03 neon-RT drivetrain w/ Syked PCM. My car started hiccupping on a road trip. It got worst the farther I got then it just went into limp on the freeway. I didnt have my scanner so I did the key dance and got p2302 & p2305. Googled it and followed some pt guys' advice. I found an autozone and replaced my plug wires and I disconnected the battery for an hr. It ran normal for a day. I was messing around with a 300C and it my car shutoff and wouldnt restart. Let it sit a few mins and it fired up with same codes(p2302 p2305). Anybody have this problem and advice? I saw OD said its not in the codes sticky.
Have car-have car problems. Have srt4-have speed problems
Image

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19309
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:43 am

badboydneon wrote:According to the diagnostics for those codes, it saying that the pcm detects that the secondary part of the ignition system (plugs, wires, coil) has an incorrect burn time or not firing at all. Possible causes: plugs, wires, coil, asd power circuit from relay to coil, coil control circuit from pcm, or pcm. So pretty much, are any cylinders misfiring? What do your plugs and wires look like? Coil? Is your wiring ok? If all of that is ok, then it has an internal pcm issue.

What wires did you use from AZ? I wouldn't use any of theirs, except maybe the Bosch optilayer/premium. But for what they cost, you could get a set of Spiro Pro's or factory wires.

If the wires/plugs, or a coil swap don't fix it, I would swap in a regular PCM, if you have the original from your car. If swapping the PCM cures it, it looks like you are out a Syked PCM. I don't think there is another option to fix the coil drivers.
Bill
dblsg wrote:ya'll a bunch of post whores
epic

2001 Neon ES MTX with '02 R/T PCM
Help support 2GN!

User avatar
akirony
2GN Member
Posts: 439
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:07 pm
Location: dallas

Post by akirony » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:44 pm

I chose the cheapest plug wires at the time so I really don't know. I had Bosch wires on at first. I think I got some crappy duralast ones now just to get me through that day. My plugs and old wires had 25k miles and the msd coil has 15k. Syked pcm has about 7k. My buddies from dfw srts told me to junk the msd coil so I put a OEM jy coil on. It runs alot better but I wont know until it acts up again. I hope not on the pcm.
Have car-have car problems. Have srt4-have speed problems
Image

ducktapetg
2GN Member
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:20 pm
Location: New Hampshire

Post by ducktapetg » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:42 am

akirony wrote: My buddies from dfw srts told me to junk the msd coil so I put a OEM jy coil on.
That was going to be my suggestion as well. Let us know if that was indeed the fix.
Jason

2001 r/t
1998 r/t Project Log --> viewtopic.php?t=66496

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19309
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:50 am

akirony wrote:My buddies from dfw srts told me to junk the msd coil
Ahh, I was not aware of the MSD coil. That may have been it all along.

It's tough to beat the factory coil pack in this situation. Anything that truly puts out more will damage the coil drivers. It takes more power in, to get more power out. (Larger amp draw)

The MSD has been hit and miss, and most times puts out less power than the factory coil. There is a reason it costs less.
Bill
dblsg wrote:ya'll a bunch of post whores
epic

2001 Neon ES MTX with '02 R/T PCM
Help support 2GN!

User avatar
akirony
2GN Member
Posts: 439
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:07 pm
Location: dallas

Post by akirony » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:04 pm

Ok I warrantied the msd coil and put it in my trunk. I went to a factory j/y coil. Was driving to work and the car died. So its still not fixed. I check the coil and notice it cracked on the #4 terminal. I take it off and put on the msd coil I had just gotten and It starts right up and runs fine. Im confused because this is the second factory coil ive cracked open. Plus its like the msd fixed it but it felt that way with the factory coil too before it died. If it happens again Im gonna go back to my 2month old PCM and send the SYKED one in. I dont need the performance if I cant make it to work everyday.
Have car-have car problems. Have srt4-have speed problems
Image

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19309
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:03 pm

Hmmm, I wonder if there is too much dwell time on the coil, and it is overheating.

IDK that Kevin messes with that, or if it is even an adjustable parameter in the factory PCM.
Bill
dblsg wrote:ya'll a bunch of post whores
epic

2001 Neon ES MTX with '02 R/T PCM
Help support 2GN!

User avatar
akirony
2GN Member
Posts: 439
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:07 pm
Location: dallas

Post by akirony » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:51 pm

occasional demons wrote:Hmmm, I wonder if there is too much dwell time on the coil, and it is overheating.

IDK that Kevin messes with that, or if it is even an adjustable parameter in the factory PCM.
I asked him in a post on his FB group. That would make sense since I've cracked two factory coils and a msd. I have new RC9YC champion plugs, new duralast wires (autozone but I've never had problems with them before), and new "out of box" MSD ignition coil. I had ngk iridium plugs, bosche wires, and an oem coil from my last motor. If it happens again im going back to my sxt pcm.
Have car-have car problems. Have srt4-have speed problems
Image

illriginalized
2GN Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:04 pm
Location: United States

Post by illriginalized » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:28 pm

Bump!

Any updates?

My car was giving me code p0300 and p2305, definitely misfiring.. tried to make it to the car parts store and back home, on the way home car completely died.. won't start again. Even removed ground battery cable, replaced ignition coil, plugs, and cables.. still doesn't even crank.

It's as if the starter is what took the hit and it didn't even hesitate the previous times I started my car before it died in the middle of the road.

Interestingly.. I can't get the code to pop up again. I did the key dance like you normally do to get the error codes but nothing.. just goes to show my mileage.

User avatar
akirony
2GN Member
Posts: 439
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:07 pm
Location: dallas

Post by akirony » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:30 pm

Not good news because... well it was my pcm again. My first pcm kept giving me P0351, P0352, & P0300 before it died finally. RIP. This time P2302 and P2305 but no P0300. After my last post it died going to work. I found my oem coil cracked again so I put on the new MSD and it started up. So I put in new champion plugs at work. I drove 25miles then it died going home and wouldn't start anymore. I put in my old sxt pcm and haven't had any issues besides the normal bogging and a little tune withdrawal lol. So I think the coil drivers shorted out. I sent it out Friday and Kevin said he'll look at it. He does alil pcm repair too. Starter hmm. Do you have a magnum intake? My starter used to ground itself to my Mag intake.
Have car-have car problems. Have srt4-have speed problems
Image

illriginalized
2GN Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:04 pm
Location: United States

Post by illriginalized » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:43 pm

akirony wrote:Not good news because... well it was my pcm again. My first pcm kept giving me P0351, P0352, & P0300 before it died finally. RIP. This time P2302 and P2305 but no P0300. After my last post it died going to work. I found my oem coil cracked again so I put on the new MSD and it started up. So I put in new champion plugs at work. I drove 25miles then it died going home and wouldn't start anymore. I put in my old sxt pcm and haven't had any issues besides the normal bogging and a little tune withdrawal lol. So I think the coil drivers shorted out. I sent it out Friday and Kevin said he'll look at it. He does alil pcm repair too. Starter hmm. Do you have a magnum intake? My starter used to ground itself to my Mag intake.
Damn man.. that sucks.

No I have an aftermarket CAI. I didn't see any cracks in my ignition coil, double checked it after my previous post.

Even if the PCM goes bad.. I should be able to hear the starter crank up right? Whether it fails to start the car or not.

User avatar
akirony
2GN Member
Posts: 439
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:07 pm
Location: dallas

Post by akirony » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:57 pm

Yeah it should crank regardless. Unless a fuse, relay went out. Or your ignition switch. It should crank on a bad pcm I believe.
Have car-have car problems. Have srt4-have speed problems
Image

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19309
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:15 am

It depends on how the PCM may have failed. The PCM controls the ground for the starter relay.

You could pull the relay, make sure it is out of gear, and jump the relay sockets in the PDC to see if the starter cranks the engine. If that doesn't work, then it is either the solenoid, the starter motor, or a bad ground.

Being the solenoid is part of the starter, you'll still need a new starter. Even if you could source a new solenoid, they have them priced so high, it's better to just replace the starter.
Bill
dblsg wrote:ya'll a bunch of post whores
epic

2001 Neon ES MTX with '02 R/T PCM
Help support 2GN!

illriginalized
2GN Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:04 pm
Location: United States

Post by illriginalized » Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:01 pm

occasional demons wrote:It depends on how the PCM may have failed. The PCM controls the ground for the starter relay.

You could pull the relay, make sure it is out of gear, and jump the relay sockets in the PDC to see if the starter cranks the engine. If that doesn't work, then it is either the solenoid, the starter motor, or a bad ground.

Being the solenoid is part of the starter, you'll still need a new starter. Even if you could source a new solenoid, they have them priced so high, it's better to just replace the starter.
Time to furiously search for tutorials.

illriginalized
2GN Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:04 pm
Location: United States

Post by illriginalized » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:31 pm

So I jumped the starter relay.. Starter activated but motor would not crank over / start.

I again tried to turn the car on just using the key and ignition but still starter wouldn't activate.

Not sure if it's the ignition switch.. doesn't make sense as to why the car would just die in the middle of driving it.. if it's the ignition switch.

And I still can't get the error codes using key dance.


Anyone have any idea? Does a car dying in the middle of driving have any correlation to the ignition switch? Maybe the ignition switch died thus car believed I just turned the key to off position while driving it?

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19309
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:36 pm

It is possible, depending on how the switch failed. You are either not getting power from the switch to the relay, or the relay coil is not being grounded.

viewtopic.php?t=65396
occasional demons wrote:Have you tried keying on three times? The odometer should then give you codes. If that doesn't work, then you may have issues. At the least, it should give you p01684, and Done.

If you have some small alligator clips, you can test the coil. Just clip 12 volts to the center pin, and ground either outer pin. When you release the ground, it should spark. You may want to fuse either the ground wire, or the positive, in case the coil has shorted. No need to burn your fingers. If it has shorted, then the PCM is prolly dead. There is no protection against a high current load on the coil drivers.

Did you try to manually run the fuel pump/starter relay?

Try swapping the horn relay for the various other ones, after blowing the horn to be sure it works.

With a test light, check for power at pin 24 starter relay, when the key is set to crank.
Image

If there is no power there, you are not getting a signal from the ign switch. if it lights, then the start circuit is good.

If you then ground the light to pin 28, while leaving it in 24, and it does not light, then the PCM is not grounding/able to ground it. If there is SKIM, that could be a possible cause, or the ASD relay is not working, either by design, or plain failure.
From: viewtopic.php?t=56619
Bill
dblsg wrote:ya'll a bunch of post whores
epic

2001 Neon ES MTX with '02 R/T PCM
Help support 2GN!

User avatar
akirony
2GN Member
Posts: 439
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:07 pm
Location: dallas

Post by akirony » Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:24 pm

^^^^^Also try spinning the motor by hand just in case. I can't remember what size but a socket and rachet on the crank pulley bolt going clock wise. If you can't spin it then worst case scenario. This is only a FINAL option after you've tested EVERYTHING else.
Have car-have car problems. Have srt4-have speed problems
Image

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19309
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:02 am

illriginalized wrote:So I jumped the starter relay.. Starter activated but motor would not crank over / start.
By this, do you mean it will not crank, or will not fire?
Bill
dblsg wrote:ya'll a bunch of post whores
epic

2001 Neon ES MTX with '02 R/T PCM
Help support 2GN!

illriginalized
2GN Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:04 pm
Location: United States

Post by illriginalized » Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:44 am

occasional demons wrote:It is possible, depending on how the switch failed. You are either not getting power from the switch to the relay, or the relay coil is not being grounded.

viewtopic.php?t=65396
occasional demons wrote:Have you tried keying on three times? The odometer should then give you codes. If that doesn't work, then you may have issues. At the least, it should give you p01684, and Done.

If you have some small alligator clips, you can test the coil. Just clip 12 volts to the center pin, and ground either outer pin. When you release the ground, it should spark. You may want to fuse either the ground wire, or the positive, in case the coil has shorted. No need to burn your fingers. If it has shorted, then the PCM is prolly dead. There is no protection against a high current load on the coil drivers.

Did you try to manually run the fuel pump/starter relay?

Try swapping the horn relay for the various other ones, after blowing the horn to be sure it works.

With a test light, check for power at pin 24 starter relay, when the key is set to crank.
Image

If there is no power there, you are not getting a signal from the ign switch. if it lights, then the start circuit is good.

If you then ground the light to pin 28, while leaving it in 24, and it does not light, then the PCM is not grounding/able to ground it. If there is SKIM, that could be a possible cause, or the ASD relay is not working, either by design, or plain failure.
From: viewtopic.php?t=56619
Thank you, I will try this today. Unfortunately car is located quite a few miles away from home so I have to keep depending on someone to give me a ride to get to it -.-

occasional demons wrote:
illriginalized wrote:So I jumped the starter relay.. Starter activated but motor would not crank over / start.
By this, do you mean it will not crank, or will not fire?
As in the starter is sounding as it should as if when you would turn the key in the ignition, but the car doesn't turn on. This is only when I jump the relay.. at the ignition switch.. I cant even get a peep out of the starter just dead silence when I turn the key.

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19309
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:10 pm

OK, that narrows it back down to post 16, and not a seized engine. :lol:
Bill
dblsg wrote:ya'll a bunch of post whores
epic

2001 Neon ES MTX with '02 R/T PCM
Help support 2GN!

illriginalized
2GN Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:04 pm
Location: United States

Post by illriginalized » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:14 pm

occasional demons wrote:OK, that narrows it back down to post 16, and not a seized engine. :lol:
Okay looks like it's grounding from PCM.

Was able to get pin 24 to light up. With pin 24 grounded to pin 28 no light. Just in case I grounded the other pins on the same starter relay. lol btw the diagram is mirrored.. so it kinda threw me off for a second.

So does this mean that the ground cable some how came undone or even possibly the PCM where ever ground is attached to it is damaged?

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19309
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:00 am

If you are not getting ground at 28, it could be a PCM ground, check the ground wires at the driver headlamp.

Or it could be a park neutral or clutch interlock switch/circuit. If the PCM doesn't see a ground from either of those, it will not let the starter crank. But it doesn't explain the engine shutting off.

A bad PCM ground can shut the engine off.
Bill
dblsg wrote:ya'll a bunch of post whores
epic

2001 Neon ES MTX with '02 R/T PCM
Help support 2GN!

illriginalized
2GN Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:04 pm
Location: United States

Post by illriginalized » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:55 pm

occasional demons wrote:If you are not getting ground at 28, it could be a PCM ground, check the ground wires at the driver headlamp.

Or it could be a park neutral or clutch interlock switch/circuit. If the PCM doesn't see a ground from either of those, it will not let the starter crank. But it doesn't explain the engine shutting off.

A bad PCM ground can shut the engine off.
Yeah I took some time yesterday to look around but I was losing sunlight. I'll check again today.

Park Neutral Safety (its an ATX) might need replacing?

As for the bold, a bad PCM ground can or can't shut off the engine while driving?

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19309
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:33 pm

It can.

The PCM needs ground so it can ground the coils in the ignition and injectors.
Bill
dblsg wrote:ya'll a bunch of post whores
epic

2001 Neon ES MTX with '02 R/T PCM
Help support 2GN!

illriginalized
2GN Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:04 pm
Location: United States

Post by illriginalized » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:57 pm

occasional demons wrote:It can.

The PCM needs ground so it can ground the coils in the ignition and injectors.
Took it to mechanics.

Mechanic claims that two fuses were blown (thought they were all good) under the hood. Replaced them, started the car, shut it off, then continued to inspect under the hood to find the ignition coil split and very hot.

This was a brand new ignition coil too, luckily I kept the old one in the passenger seat. Anyways, mech claims that there's more than likely a short some where if it happens to the other ignition coil.

occasional demons
Junior Admin
Posts: 19309
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm
Location: Ashland Ohio

Post by occasional demons » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:43 am

Ignition coils overheat from too much dwell, (which the PCM controls - this is mainly an MegaSquirt issue), and possibly from the coil driver grounding for some reason when keyed on, and left keyed on for an extended period of time.

IDK if the normal state is grounded or not grounded. The ASD relay should cut power to the coil/injectors once the PCM sees there is no cam crank sync. (Engine not turning)

I wonder if maybe the ASD relay contact is fused together. :-k
Bill
dblsg wrote:ya'll a bunch of post whores
epic

2001 Neon ES MTX with '02 R/T PCM
Help support 2GN!

User avatar
akirony
2GN Member
Posts: 439
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:07 pm
Location: dallas

Post by akirony » Mon May 05, 2014 4:48 pm

I'm really going back to the basics now. I haven't gotten my syked pcm back but now my sxt pcm
(barely 5 months old) is giving me p0351-p0352-p0300 too. When I get to work I'm gonna check the wiring harness and asd relay circuits all over again. It doesn't happen all the time though. It's more like twice a month now.
Have car-have car problems. Have srt4-have speed problems
Image

illriginalized
2GN Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:04 pm
Location: United States

Post by illriginalized » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:34 pm

occasional demons wrote:Ignition coils overheat from too much dwell, (which the PCM controls - this is mainly an MegaSquirt issue), and possibly from the coil driver grounding for some reason when keyed on, and left keyed on for an extended period of time.

IDK if the normal state is grounded or not grounded. The ASD relay should cut power to the coil/injectors once the PCM sees there is no cam crank sync. (Engine not turning)

I wonder if maybe the ASD relay contact is fused together. :-k
Ended up being a dead PCM. The part of the PCM that controls the fuel injectors, specifically the "plug port" that's highlighted in white on the PCM.

Tell you what, I've owned a Toyota Corolla, Infiniti I30, and Infiniti M35... all of these cars I've driven well over 200k miles, well maintained.. and I have never spent so much money on any one of these cars like I have on this Dodge Neon.

I'm sorry for the rant, I just find it saddening that people's love for this car and the struggles they're willing to go through is really all in vain. Waste of money, time, and resources... I'll be soon to sell this car, hopefully some how sell it for $2k and just replace it with a Ninja 650r. I'll stick to Japanese vehicles, I've learned my lesson.

User avatar
sidepipe87
2009 Silver Contributor
Posts: 9491
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 5:35 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact:

Post by sidepipe87 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:58 pm

illriginalized wrote:
occasional demons wrote:Ignition coils overheat from too much dwell, (which the PCM controls - this is mainly an MegaSquirt issue), and possibly from the coil driver grounding for some reason when keyed on, and left keyed on for an extended period of time.

IDK if the normal state is grounded or not grounded. The ASD relay should cut power to the coil/injectors once the PCM sees there is no cam crank sync. (Engine not turning)

I wonder if maybe the ASD relay contact is fused together. :-k
Ended up being a dead PCM. The part of the PCM that controls the fuel injectors, specifically the "plug port" that's highlighted in white on the PCM.

Tell you what, I've owned a Toyota Corolla, Infiniti I30, and Infiniti M35... all of these cars I've driven well over 200k miles, well maintained.. and I have never spent so much money on any one of these cars like I have on this Dodge Neon.

I'm sorry for the rant, I just find it saddening that people's love for this car and the struggles they're willing to go through is really all in vain. Waste of money, time, and resources... I'll be soon to sell this car, hopefully some how sell it for $2k and just replace it with a Ninja 650r. I'll stick to Japanese vehicles, I've learned my lesson.
Well I think your bitching will likely fall on deaf ears here... the MAJORITY of us don't have these bizarre issues that you seem to have. I've owned 7 neons now, and have yet to see anything so obscure I couldn't easily recognize, diagnose and fix it. I've spent a ton of money on them too, but all by choice. Maintenance is maintenance, so that can't even be factored in. oil changes, tune-ups, dead sensors are all things you will see on any car regardless of the badge on the front of it.

User avatar
akirony
2GN Member
Posts: 439
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:07 pm
Location: dallas

Post by akirony » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:26 pm

Sorry to hear that man. Sounds like your giving up alil early to me. I've only owned my one neon for 4yrs now (first car I ever bought). I've only ever had mounts breaking lol. The one major problem was me replacing a motor due to flood hydrolock 2yrs ago. I just started having these pcm problems but I'm not gonna sell my car over it. Gotta remember my car is over 10 yrs old and I beat on it everyday. These things happen. I love my neon til I it dies and I rebuild it again.
Have car-have car problems. Have srt4-have speed problems
Image

Post Reply

Return to “Engine”