Page 1 of 1

mix and match magnum question

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:17 pm
by tneker
So I have a 2003 R/T Magnum engine with a NGC ECU for a enduro race car application.

I would like to convert this to a SBEC ECU R/T so I can get away from the NGC and perhaps take advantage of a syked ECU.

I have located a SBEC R/T engine wire harness, and I plan to goto a junkyard to pick up a body wiring harness to splice in.

I have located a SBEC R/T ECU to send to sykes.

I know that a key difference between SBEC and NGC is crank position sensor. I have access to a gen 1 engine with the crank sensor in the back. Can I use the gen 1 block and crank, or are there other differences that require me to find a 2000-2001 long block?

Anything else I am not thinking about for this jig saw puzzle?

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:55 pm
by occasional demons
Kevin can do '04 PCM's, and they don't really need to be R/T units, unless you are really anal on how the MTV functions in the intake.

Even an SRT PCM can be made to run your NGC engine. You can make just as much or more power with the NGC stuff, it just takes a little more thinking.

If this was 10 years ago, your approach would be the norm. Now there really isn't a good reason to do this. You can get a 2004 PCM, have it programmed much easier than going to the lengths of swapping an engine and wiring. A combination window switch/WOT unit will make the manifold work nearly/exactly like stock.

The NGC block is said to be stronger than the SBEC block by a few folks that know about all there is to know on the differences. The NGC platform would not have been researched and "hacked" to the current level if it was not worth it.


But to answer your question, your 2003 R/T head/IM will bolt right up to any 1996 to 2002 2.0 block just like the factory put it there.

If you want to bump compression to 10.3:1, try for a DOHC bottom end. You should probably remove a little material from the cylinder head where the raised part of the pistons is at the edges. Some ppl file a little off the pistons, but the cylinder head is the better way.

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:14 pm
by tneker
Thanks Bill. I am fairly new to Neon's and you have repeatedly been responding to my post questions and providing great guidance and information.

I think I can find an 04 PCM so I'll reach out to Kevin. I didn't see the 04 listed on his website so I just assumed he hadn't gotten to the non-turbo NGC's yet.

Just curious, do you know what the difference is between 03 and 04 that let's him do the 04, but not an 03?

I like this solution way better than where I was headed, thanks!

Kent

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:23 pm
by occasional demons
Kent, the '03's are somehow coded in a way that makes them very difficult to hack. But the '04 and '05s are easier in that aspect. But an '04 PCM will run an '03 just fine, as there are no real differences in the engine, sensors or wiring.

An '05 would probably work too after he has programmed it. In stock form, the '05 is even more picky for modifications. You best bet, like you said is to contact him.

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:17 pm
by trojmn
tneker wrote:Just curious, do you know what the difference is between 03 and 04 that let's him do the 04, but not an 03?
03 are NGC-1... 04 and 05 neon and nearly everything else including the wifes minivan used NGC-3 hardware. The latter are better supported by DS/SCT and and the flashing is less flaky. HP only supports NGC-3. Its not that 03s *cannot* be tuned, i used an available 03 SRT PCM, its just that the tune for an 03 doesn't port directly over to 04/05...and occasionally can be a flake to flash. for boosted applications the 04/05 has larger tables for better resolution... not necessarily an issue for N/A.

so 1 and done tuning OR fight with a one off year hardware whose vendors are no longer developing and deal with occasional "quirky" behavior.

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:23 pm
by DodgeFreak
occasional demons wrote: In stock form, the '05 is even more picky for modifications. You best bet, like you said is to contact him.
So, how much more picky is the 05?? I'm getting an 03 R\T and would like to do this also, my Dad has an 05 parts car that I could get the Comp out of but if 04 is a better bet then maybe I could swap for an 04.

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:24 pm
by sidepipe87
DodgeFreak wrote:
occasional demons wrote: In stock form, the '05 is even more picky for modifications. You best bet, like you said is to contact him.
So, how much more picky is the 05?? I'm getting an 03 R\T and would like to do this also, my Dad has an 05 parts car that I could get the Comp out of but if 04 is a better bet then maybe I could swap for an 04.
What are you trying to do exactly?... there was only an R/T in 03 and 04 which NGC pcm so the only 05 PCM that will be "better" is for an SRT-4 and if you do a complete SRT swap. Otherwise, leave the pcm alone.

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:29 pm
by DodgeFreak
I'm wanting to have a computer recalibrated for performance or buy an aftermarket, but I don't want to send my r\t computer in, incase I need it later. I was wondering if they could recalibrate the 04 computer. I'm new to this so I'm trying to figure all this out.

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:13 am
by occasional demons
If you are having the '05 recalibrated, it should work with whatever you need it to.

But I don't know that it has the option of controlling the MTV in the intake manifold. Probably just like any non Magnum PCM , you will need to use an RPM/WOT switch.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:12 pm
by sidepipe87
This exists, but don't expect him to be quick. Kevin has some very slow turn around times and customer service is questionable at best based on feedback from most folks. Good luck.

http://sykedecutuning.com/shop/index.ph ... order=DESC