According to chrysler, this is normal and OK!

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:07 am

I think Matt is talking about using the actual MTF that was supplied in Neon transmissions from 95 to early 2002, not the ATF that was used from late 2002 - 2005.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:36 pm

Spec'd out for use in the 2000 at least.

neons.org wrote: Mopar Spec MS-9417 Mtx Fluid: Analysis of Fresh & used samples

I had virgin and used samples of this "liquid gold" analyzed by Schaeffer Labs back in Aug. & Sept. '02. I thought I had posted it here at .org and at Bobistheoilguy long ago, but can't find it by searching,
at either website, & so post this. BTW, the lab goofed the first time & had to re-do tests on both the used & unused samples.

This is the manual transaxle lubricant spec'ed by Chrysler for the manual NV-T350 transaxles in 95-99 Neons. I believe they continued to use it through the 2000 or 2001 model year, after that they switched to ATF-+4.

The virgin sample was from a sealed bottle bought when I changed my trans fluid in August '02. The used sample is taken from the factory fill Mtx fluid I drained at the same time at 116,320 miles. As you can see, there is nothing magic about this stuff, wear metals are pretty high. It’s a GL-4 manual transaxle lube with a viscosity equal to a high-end 20W or low end 30W motor oil(understand that different batches will almost certainly have slightly different viscosities. They shoot for a narrow range, not an absolute #) To put things in perspective, 20W range is from 5.6 to 9.29 CST, 30W range is from 9.3 to 12.49 CST; Redline MTL usually tests at around 10.5 to 11 CST. I used to be scared to death to use anything except the Mopar fluid, but when I drain the current fill in a couple of weeks will refill with a fluid from a custom maker, ships to anywhere in the 48 states for ~$40/gal. Because of shipping it’s actually cheaper to buy a gal than 3 qts of his fluid. If Redline MTL was available locally I’d happily buy that.

Numbers are in Parts Per Million, or ppm. Percentages are of maximum % allowable.

Wear metals:
Copper: 6 , 373
Iron: 2 , 399
Chromium: 0, 2
Aluminum: 2 , 9
Lead: 1 , 119

Additives:
Moly: 2, 3
Phosphorus: 1071 , 2495
Zinc: 1109 , 1310
Magnesium: 6245 , 5711
Calcium: 151 , 470

Contaminants:
No antifreeze, fuel, or water.
Silicon: 4 , 84

Viscosity CST: 8.97 , 4.99
SAE: 20W , 10W

Sulfur: 0 , 25%
Oxidation: 0 , 2%
Nitration: 0 , 8%

My personal take on this: I can think of several different fluids I’m willing to put in my trans. In no particular order, they are:

1. Mopar MS-9417, as originally recommended.

2. Mopar ATF-+4(In my car I’d want to change this fairly quick, though. Why? Good base oil, but kinda short on anti-wear additives for a manual transaxle. Lotsa people use it & like it, though!)

3. Pennzoil Synchromesh. Right viscosity & type of additives, no reason it shouldn’t work well in our transaxles. Quaker State Synchromesh is virtually identical.

4. Redline MTL: A hair thicker than our MS-9417,big deal. So many have used this with no problems, I’d be happy to fill my Mtx with it, if only someone sold it locally! Strong anti-wear additive package & full synthetic base oil.

5. Specialty Formulations SynchroGlide: this is the fluid I mentioned above. Haven’t used it yet, but expect it to give smoother shifts & much lower wear than the factory fluid. Viscosity 9.5 CST (very low 30W), full synthetic base oil with a very strong anti-wear additive package. Since I have to order, I chose this fluid.

Of course, your opinion may vary. I’m not trying to tell anyone what to use in his (or her) tranny, just passing along some firm data on a much debated, & poorly understood subject.

Admins, & Mods, could we put this one in the archives?

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t=246275

I've got over 325,000km on the trans with this stuff. It's noisy still, but I have never had a problem with it shifting. The fluid can be ordered at any dealer.

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:06 pm

and comperable fluids would be Redline MTL or AMSOIL MTF plus a couple others.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:23 am

We'll I discovered you can purchase the Mobil 1 High Mileage at your local Wally world, but due to the PPM of zinc now being lower than it used to be I do not know if people still want to use it. As of now my noise is still present when the trani is cold, this is possibly due to the fact the damage is already done and the fluid is not going to stop this. But under load the noise is gone so it does help protect the transmission this way especially when your almost doubling the stock engines torque.

Caraudioholic24 · Post by **Caraudioholic24** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:52 pm

Well I guess I have to get in on this now...
Got some nice new axles and finally got my coilovers in..fired up the car and all seemed fine..

the other day I fired the car up and the same noise the the original op had I am now having... sounds horrible.... some info on the trans

05 t-350 swapped in a beefed up obx lsd. Trans has about 3000 miles... running a pt clutch and Im using royal purple synchromax.

SO now Im stuck car is getting put away for the winter so I dont mind pulling the trans out. I have no choice anyway since the stupid speedo gear fell off the diff again..

Anyway any suggestions on what to do... I plan on boosting the car soon so I dont need to be worrying about grenading the trans... nevermind the horrible noise/grinding/scraping its making now...

P.S. trans runs and shifts perfect so this is mind boggling...

chris1211 · Post by **chris1211** » Wed May 09, 2012 5:18 pm

did you ever find out?

chew* · Post by chew* » Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:52 pm

chris1211 wrote:did you ever find out?

I tack welded his slinger in place...I haven't heard complaints since.

Caraudioholic24 · Post by **Caraudioholic24** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:23 pm

Yea the slinger was not slinging the fluid around soooo the damage has been done to the bearings etc....much less noise now it's very slight when cold or when reving the car past a certain rpm... But def a lot better...

Trans shifts fine and no other issues to report as of yet... I keep an eye on it every time I take it out.... Needless to say I'm on the hunt for another low mileage trans Just in case....

chew* · Post by chew* » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:52 pm

Caraudioholic24 wrote:Yea the Slinger was not slinging the fluid around so the damage has been done to the bearings etc....much less noise now it's very slight when cold or when revving the car past a certain rpm... But def a lot better...

Trans shifts fine and no other issues to report as of yet... I keep an eye on it every time I take it out.... Needless to say I'm on the hunt for another low mileage trans just in case....

I edited your quoted post for punctuation, stop texting and driving.......

I have a mint one mike and the location of another.....Both road tested by me. Mileage is ehhh for both but man do they shift good.

Caraudioholic24 · Post by **Caraudioholic24** » Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:18 pm

Stupid phone.... lol

I wont need it for a while its more my OCD than anything else... the noise hasnt changed,,,,its very faint so I should be able to romp it for a bit ...