According to chrysler, this is normal and OK!

Mad_Medeiros · Post by **Mad_Medeiros** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:35 pm

The noise matts car did, mine did as well.. the high pitched scraping, that noise would go away eventually

the other noise blackrose car did.. the ticking/clacking.. that sound NEVER went away, even after warmed up

I'm almost thinking its 2 different things

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:44 pm

I'm on the way to doing what your posting, Ive got a replacement trani waiting to be installed so I don't have any downtime like when the diff pin let go. Hopefully when my trani is replaced, Chrysler will scrap my old(current) trani which would allow me to tear into it and see if I can find out what is causing the problem with NPG guidance. I'm also going to have the tech save me a sample of the fluid that will be drained from the trani so I can send it out for evaluation to find out what metal particals are in it.

FTWNeon · Post by **FTWNeon** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:45 pm

Alright here's mine, around 22mb, maybe 8 mins total. I think the audio came out pretty good. Pardon my randomness at times...

http://ftwmotorsports.com/FTWNeon/trannynoise.mov

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:14 am

^^^
I'm converting the video and shorting it for others to view....
Whats strange with your noise, yours gets quieter with the clutch pedal pushed in, but you can still hear the other noise that we are all taking about here. The noise yours makes that goes away with the pedal pushed in might actually be something different.....

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:56 am

Why would the noise stay when the clutch pedal is pushed in?

If the clutch is disengaged then the trans parts aren't moving.

Or am I missing something?

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:50 pm

BlackRoseRacing wrote:Here's the lates vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mqJHi5VZBk

Anyone with the same noise please post a vid with audio here....
Since the T350 is now obsolete, Chrysler will probably not do anything about the problem. But if we get enough complaints filled, they may issue a TSB for this repair.

I just noticed something else....
Listen to the above video with the speakers turned up, at about the 54sec point an additional squeaking noise is audible that starts getting louder like a rotating part starting to get traction, it gets higher pitched then higher pitched by the end of the video......

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:58 pm

FTW'S edited video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObAqZrMwPYo

Mad_Medeiros · Post by **Mad_Medeiros** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:45 pm

uhm, and I missing something here?

my car made all these same crazy sounds with the clutch pedal up, as soon as you pushed the clutch pedal down it was DEAD SILENT

it didn't stop right away tough, you could hear it slowly stop making sound until it was silent, so whatever was making the noise is spinning.

you're input shaft is spinning with the clutch pedal up.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:45 am

^^^
Yeah I noticed that also in his video. Same noise we have except with the pedal up, his goes away when the pedal is down....which is a totally different scenario than our trani's. But it could be very well related too....IDK

Post by **racer12306** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:36 pm

My trans only makes the noise when the clutch is engaged. When the clutch is disengaged there is no noise. It is definitely related to the rotation of the parts in the trans.

02 turbo sxt · Post by **02 turbo sxt** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:22 am

I drive a 02 neon sxt i dont know if i have the same tranni that you guys are having issues with but my car did when i bought it back in 06 . It would make this awful rattling noise and then when i pushed in the clutch pedal it would get quieter i took it up to the dealership . Well after about 3 visits of bitching to my service adviser he had the tech pull the tranni oooohhhhh the things that were wrong with that tranni . Well the output shaft seal was leaking and the clutch was gone and i had chipped a tooth on the ring gear wont say how i did that though . And my car only had around 52000 well needless to sat that the warenty company didnt want to replace my tranni just replace the parts so I bought a clutch kit spec stage 2 they get the parts put it all back together . When call me to pick it up i get it and drive it back to where i was working and while it was in neutral all you could hear was the god awful clanking sound and then u pushed the clutch in it got a lil quieter so i cut out of work early and get some miles on the new tranni and clutch i get about a mile away from my house and the whole tranni takes a massive shit on me . The thing was so far gone that i had to turn the car off to pull it out of gear needless to say that i now have a new tranni in my car and the noise is completly gone

03blackrt · Post by **03blackrt** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:29 am

racer12306 wrote:My trans only makes the noise when the clutch is engaged. When the clutch is disengaged there is no noise. It is definitely related to the rotation of the parts in the trans.

The '95 I just got did the same thing... along with everything else mentioned in the thread. I added 2 quarts of atf+4 and it went away

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:03 am

^^^
Smart ARS....

ragek23 · Post by **ragek23** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:45 pm

I had this same noise^ It started when i replaced my clutch and throw out bearing. Then last summer during autox my clutch exploded. I mean the whole center just blew apart. $600 later with a new throw out bearing and performance clutch the sound was totally gone. Its 6months later and still no sound or rattle.
I must have u know I brought the car to an excellent transmission shop and they did the job for a cheap price considering what the dealer would have charged.

I made the autox club's site with my obliterated clutch.
http://www.cartct.com/results/08-26-07/082607153.jpg

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:05 pm

What clutch and TOB did you use?

Mad_Medeiros · Post by **Mad_Medeiros** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:30 pm

^news flash..

he lives in california... Warm Warm Warm

this only effects people in cold climates, and once again man I will tell you now, it has NOTHING to do with the clutch/tob. absolutly NOTHING.

I've ran both PT clutch and reg. and still had the same nasty noise, most people who have this sound issue are located in colder climates...

my car was dead silent through out the summer of last year

Post by **racer12306** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:23 am

^^^news flash, he isn't in california. he is in new york or connecticut depending on the time of year.

personally, you are not an engineer. this needs to be left up to the engineers at NPG. we are getting them as much info as we can. up until mine most of the car with these problems had a PT clutch. they can make an assumption that it may have to do with the clutch. but of course mine definitely proved otherwise. as my car has never had anything other than the OEM clutch in it.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:50 pm

racer12306 wrote:personally, you are not an engineer. this needs to be left up to the engineers at NPG.

Because the boys at NPG are doing so much for us

Post by **racer12306** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:31 pm

True, but when someone who isn't an engineer is trying to tell an engineer how to fix something that bugs me. Leave the engineering to the engineers.

I am waiting for Chris's trans to be removed and have the fluid analyzed and then the trans analyzed. Then I bet we will know exactly wehat is going on.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:38 pm

Why? Because engineers are the only people who know how to fix things and everything else is irrelevant? I'm sorry, but that comment pisses me off, and I'm studying engineering none the less. While Derek isn't the most technical person out there, not only he has done the absolute most on here to try and sort out this problem, but he also sought the advice of those more knowledable. By knowing what didn't work for him on his car, we get closer to finding out what IS the problem. You don't need to be an engineer to solve something by the process of elimination.

Here's a piece of advice, when you hit the working world leave the Engineers are Holier than though attitude at home or you'll get eaten alive.

If the fluid analysis finds anything I would be surprised. All I suspect you'll see out of that is older fluid, some water, and some metal and brass/fibre particles. All of which are going to be in the fluid of a used for XX XXX miles transmission. First place I would be heading is tearing apart the tranny and following these little tidbits posted a while ago:

changing your synchronizer rings on the input shaft. This will
fix the problem for a time, but it will eventually come back. As we
talked it is a wear issue with the rings

The issue is not the Brass(gold part) Reverse Brake cone itself either(or 5th
gear "meshing"). The brass cone will not "rattle" in the case...so you
can hear it. It is designed to be loose in the aluminum case. If it
wasn't, it would burn up. The rattle issue is the Synchronizer stop
rings rattling on the inside of the Synchronizer hubs(where the "sleeve"
slides).

Between these quotes and everything Derek has tried it's pretty obvious where the problem is at. We can even solve it, but it'll just do it again when the new synchro's wear in. Unless NVG releases revised synchro's and locks there are only short term solutions here.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:25 pm

what about a grinding issue at cold start? It goes away with the clutch being pushed in. Goes away when warm, fluid is the atf4 stuff, and it is fairly new, and full... ?? This is what I am gettign now.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:44 am

Ok, easy now.....

As for NPG not helping with this issue, remember this:
1 - We are a small number of people bringing up this issue
2 - How many of you filled a complaint with Chrysler about this noise?
3 - I personally have a contact at NPG, and until I get my trani swapped out, I can't progress any farther

NPG is not going to take the time and money out of there own pockets to resolve this issue unless Chrysler contacts them stating that they have numerous complaints about this issue. Once Chrysler decides that replacing the $2000 trani for a noise is going to get expensive for something that can get repaired with an updated part as per a TSB, Chrysler won't issue any TSB's or even contact NPG about the problem.
Several employee's at NPG are also starting to have this same issue and on the side are looking into it. But as I stated again and again, If no one files a legit complaint with a dealer and Chrysler, Chrysler will not do anything about the issue. Basically Chrysler has no idea of the problem because of the minimal complaints on record....
I personally think I may have found a fix to the problem, but until my trani is replaced I can't progress any farther.

PS - of those of you having this issue, who is using an UDP?

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:41 am

I have an UDP, however the noise was there prior to the UDP. I know that can't be proved now since the UDP is on, but it was there.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:21 pm

^^^
Thank you, I want to know how many of you with T-350's and this trani noise have an UDP and a PT clutch or not.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:50 pm

Been doing it long before I ever installed the UDP.

This is silly, you guys are just grasping at straws here. No PT clutch or UDP will cause this problem. NVG know what the problem is, they already told us. They won't do anything about it unless there's enough complaints like you say. Even if everybody here complained it's not even 1% of enough people to get something done about this. Considering a good number of us don't even have warranties left, nobody's going to help us here.

Mad_Medeiros · Post by **Mad_Medeiros** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:11 am

And thats why I got rid of my car matt ^

out of anyone here, people are just leading assumptions

PT Cruiser Clutches UDP's.. give me a f$$kn break, yes I swore.

I had my tranmission opened up 3 times if you guys knew every detail that I had done to my transmission you would know for sure its NOT the UDP, and its NOT the clutch.. it's just NPG trying to cover there ass

I paid top dollar to a very VERY good tranny guy who HE himself could not quite figure it out, we tried 3 different things and the damn sound was still present

we even used OLDER t350 parts... (the un revised ones) to see if it would cure the part, I will tell you now.. when he filled the syncro rings with tons of grease.. the sound was dead silent! how do I know?

I have a video the day after I got the car back from the shop! shall I post it?

this was a DAY after I got the car back from my tranny guy, we replaced the reverse lock out with the older un revised one, stuffed the Synchronizer stop
rings with tons of grease, def a poor way of trying to fix things.. but judging from the videos I made a day after.. it OBLIVIOUSLY fixed things

guess what, a week later the sound came back..

NPG is feeding you s%%t, and I knew they weren't going to do dick all about it, luckily for me my tranny guy was cool enough to understand he couldnt fix it, and didn't charge me much at all (just replacement of new OEM clutch/flywheel, and of course labor)

that was AFTER 3 Re and Re's to the stupid thing, which should of cost me 3000+ bucks.

now 2 months later I'm rocking my srt-4 no sounds and I went to see my old car 2 weeks ago, poor wash guy bought it.. same damn sound!

I just wonder if this sound is actually damaging anything inside the tranny? matt's been dealing with it for a LONG time, and it only really occurs in cold weather.. if nothing is going to break Chrysler won't do anything about it.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:19 am

fixitmattman wrote:Been doing it long before I ever installed the UDP.

This is silly, you guys are just grasping at straws here. No PT clutch or UDP will cause this problem. NVG know what the problem is, they already told us. They won't do anything about it unless there's enough complaints like you say. Even if everybody here complained it's not even 1% of enough people to get something done about this. Considering a good number of us don't even have warranties left, nobody's going to help us here.

I'm just throwing out idea's right now while waiting to dig into my trani. I wanted to rule out the PT clutch and the UDP before going any farther. NPG is reading this topic you can believe what you want about NPG, but my contact has helped me on several occasions and his right hand man is the one who designed the T-850.
The syncro stop rings are what is causing the noise, but the question is why are they wearing prematurely and are there available components out there that can be installed to get rid of the noise?
If this topic is getting to you guys that bad, please don't post your frustrations here thats what OFF-TOPIC is for.

Mad_Medeiros · Post by **Mad_Medeiros** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:37 am

this topic is not getting to anyone, people are just annoyed.. who cares if NPG is reading.

They are not going to do anything for anyone, BUT you, only because you know you're contacts... this could cost chrysler lots of money so there not going to do anything for anyone

I'm glad we know its the syncro stop rings, now what?

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:14 pm

I'm glad we know its the syncro stop rings, now what?

Now we wait....
My trani has still not been replaced so I can't progress any farther....
I think I have a fix to the trani, but I'm waiting to get my current trani replaced so I can talk to NPG about the idea....
What has my confused is the Mopar Performance clutch for the 2.0 is the 02 PT clutch, now if it was going to cause problems like we are having, Mopar would have never offered it....
Once I get more updates I'll post it here....

Mad_Medeiros · Post by **Mad_Medeiros** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:23 pm

Once again, I believe this has nothing to do with the clutch.. just poor building qualities from NPG, in harsh words

they f&^@# up.. they should fix it and pay people to get there's fixed.

everytime I see 5 speed 2nd gens, I now always ask them about there transmissions and noise.

I want to see someone replace there syncro stop rings with revised ones, and see if the sound dissepears.. I know for now when you stuff them with grease it dissapears temporarily..

what I don't understand is why this sound is most present in cold weather?