atx tran build

w0158981 · Post by **w0158981** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:39 am

sooo i got what sounds to me a good deal on a turbo but i've been told my trans 9/10 won't like it unless i build it, so i'm just wondeering what does building up my trans to hold a turbo entitle? and what am i looking at price wise?

jake_tim · Post by **jake_tim** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:13 am

There is a company called Level Ten that deals with built transmissions. But honestly, it will be MUCH cheaper just to do a 5speed tranny swap, you are looking at thousands for a built ATX tranny.

I'm sure others will chime in soon.

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:29 am

JRM · Post by **JRM** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:39 pm

jake_tim wrote:There is a company called Level Ten that deals with built transmissions. But honestly, it will be MUCH cheaper just to do a 5speed tranny swap, you are looking at thousands for a built ATX tranny.

I'm sure others will chime in soon.

I picked up a built tranny from level ten and love it. They are out of new jersey. You're looking at around $3000 + shipping for a built tranny or if you are willing to try to rebuild it yourself they do offer kits. I believe the kits are around $1000. Their number is (973) 827-1000. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

w0158981 · Post by **w0158981** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:50 pm

wow lol, is there anyone else on here who has done an atx 2.0 turbo? just out of curiousity, i'd like to hear what routes they all took transmission wise, what psi there running on it etc.

i've been doin massive ammounts of research on here and still am. I plan on only running like 6-9 psi because of the internals of the engine, and i think the atx tranny can handle 200 horses or so. But i also realize that when dealing with a turbo its a little different lol.

jake_tim · Post by **jake_tim** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:15 pm

Unless your transmission is built, I am confident in saying that any boost over say 5 psi would be detrimental to its integrity. Also, running that low is basically uneconomical, you wouldn't have good results.

ATX transmissions also suck up a lot of power....a lot. Lets just say that I hate mine.

OB · Post by OB » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:36 pm

Building the stock auto is going to be a total waste of money unless you plan on drag racing competitively. Since you only plan to run low boost, that answers that question. Solution? MTX swap. Cheap, effective, reliable. There is no reason for further discussion.

If you're skeptical to swap to MTX due to lack of mechanical know-how, what makes you think you have the skills to build the automatic? A lot of people with ATX come up with poor excuses for why they dont want to do the swap. You cant say money is the issue, because a swap is ten times cheaper than building an ATX. Mechanical ability doesnt fly, because both routes require a great deal of work. I think your options are clear.

LionheartedSXT · Post by **LionheartedSXT** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:05 pm

w0158981 wrote:wow lol, is there anyone else on here who has done an atx 2.0 turbo? just out of curiousity, i'd like to hear what routes they all took transmission wise, what psi there running on it etc.

i've been doin massive ammounts of research on here and still am. I plan on only running like 6-9 psi because of the internals of the engine, and i think the atx tranny can handle 200 horses or so. But i also realize that when dealing with a turbo its a little different lol.

Hul kogan did one, free rider is closer to finishing than I am, I am in the process of doing my build...I have an atx also, Also I agree with OB on one point about it being a waste to build the atx, its pointless unless its for competition, but If its for daily driving just keep you atx, there is no need to swap to an mtx unless that is what you really want. Also with the right management you should be able to run 7-8 psi on an atx, anymore would be pushing it especially if you are constantly smashing on the throttle...I can't remember who told me this but it is true, heat is what kills the transmission, so keep that in mind...

OB · Post by OB » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:33 pm

^Heat kills everything when enough is applied.

The ATX fails for a few reasons. It's friction surfaces (clutches) cant handle the added torque. The torque converter is not designed to operate under the conditions that come with increased power. The computer (which controls the ATX) is not capable of compensating for the shifting needs via line pressure w/o a valve body upgrade. The whole trans is basically a ticking timebomb with this kind of load on it.

dbesade · Post by **dbesade** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:01 pm

OB wrote:^Heat kills everything when enough is applied.

The ATX fails for a few reasons. It's friction surfaces (clutches) cant handle the added torque. The torque converter is not designed to operate under the conditions that come with increased power. The computer (which controls the ATX) is not capable of compensating for the shifting needs via line pressure w/o a valve body upgrade. The whole trans is basically a ticking timebomb with this kind of load on it.

With upgraded clutches, a huge ATX Cooler and a different TC,I'm sure it would be fine on 7lbs for some time with some common sense. Its not always practical to do the MTX Swap ... practical meaning people don't want to.

Do the swap. Tranny blows up ... replace/rebuild it.

-Dave

caustic neon · Post by **caustic neon** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:23 pm

Actually OB If you payed attention you would know that he has a 3spd atx in his 2000 neon and they are pretty much bullet proof to a certain point. which is why the srt and turbo dodge guys love them. The only atx that is computer controlled is the 4spd that came in the 03+ neons. boost + a 4spd is a no go over 8 psi. look at the turbo atx PT.

w0158981, if you want to keep the 3spd atx then deff get an external tranny cooler and look in to a rmvb (reverse manual valve body) also hit up Chris BRR in a pm he and i were talking about what it would take to build up a 3spd atx for pretty cheep, just swapping parts with other Chrysler atx .

OB · Post by OB » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:10 pm

^The 3 speed isnt computer controlled? News to me. I have heard that they're stronger than the 4 speed, just never got any details. Anyone know what the differences are that make for the added strength?

Danteneon · Post by **Danteneon** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:18 pm

Nope, the 3sp isn't computer controlled. The 3sp trans are basically a carry over from the old 413 and up ATXs that were used in, well, everything back in the day. It isn't so much what makes them stronger, but what made the 4sp weaker. I don't know the specifics to what was compromised with the 4sps, but it isn't just limited to the Neon. Remember the 604 anyone? Best thing we ever did to my brothers 93 Shadow ES was switch to the 3sp. Well, besides swapping a 5sp later

Post by **occasional demons** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:24 pm

caustic neon wrote:Actually OB If you payed attention you would know that he has a 3spd atx in his 2000 neon and they are pretty much bullet proof to a certain point. which is why the srt and turbo dodge guys love them. The only atx that is computer controlled is the 4spd that came in the 03+ neons. boost + a 4spd is a no go over 8 psi. look at the turbo atx PT.

w0158981, if you want to keep the 3spd atx then deff get an external tranny cooler and look in to a rmvb (reverse manual valve body) also hit up Chris BRR in a pm he and i were talking about what it would take to build up a 3spd atx for pretty cheep, just swapping parts with other Chrysler atx .

Everyone seems to forget that the 3 speed survived the heavier turbo cars of the Eighties/early Nineties without any issues. Granted they were only 145 hp stock, but I'm sure there were plenty of those turbo motors putting down better numbers than that. Not sure but I think the internals were a bit better in the turbo ATX's. If nothing else find an old Turbo ATX to swap the internals with when you rebuild. Heck, if shipping wasnt killer I'd ship you mine. The bellhousing is broke but the internals should be fine.

Post by **racer12306** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:33 pm

it also held up to the 3.0, 141hp and probably 170ftlbs in a spirit/acclaim

w0158981 · Post by **w0158981** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:41 am

well now that everyone seems to agree the 3 speed can handle her i think i'm going to begin my turbo adventure

soon enough i'll be killin hondas all over the place and i'll get that sweet sound PSHHHHHH

Donkeypuncher · Post by **Donkeypuncher** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:10 pm

Just be glad chrysler didn't put the A604 auto in the neons, that thing is a grenade waiting to blow up.

I have to agree with most here saying a mtx swap is the best option. I'd go with the 3.55 mtx, just because the longer gears will help with traction and keep you in a sweet spot for the boost.

Might as well just get the trans and wait for your auto to take a crap. A nice stage 3 clutch with a quality lsd should handle any kind of boost you can throw at it.

Post by **occasional demons** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:31 pm

Donkeypuncher wrote:Just be glad chrysler didn't put the A604 auto in the neons, that thing is a grenade waiting to blow up.

slow2.0ts13 · Post by **slow2.0ts13** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:25 pm

[quote="caustic neon"]The only atx that is computer controlled is the 4spd that came in the 03+ neons. boost + a 4spd is a no go over 8 psi. look at the turbo atx PT. [quote]

So does that mean boosting my 03 sxt atx at 5-6 psi would be safe?

DoubtedNeon · Post by **DoubtedNeon** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:04 pm

when i was talking to them about this they said that about 5 is good/safe...

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:55 pm

DoubtedNeon wrote:when i was talking to them about this they said that about 5 is good/safe...

Who is "Them" ??

- Nick

blue demon02 · Post by **blue demon02** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:56 am

You are all completely forgetting the 4SPD 41te found in the PT cruiser turbo and a few other FWD Chryslers. Reacersteve over on the other forum is putting down almost 600WHP and just went 10.2 on a completely stock JY trans with 65,000 miles on it. He did have a custom trans computer as he was running a MS as a standalone. He also had stall converter but everything else was stock he did say that there is probably a few things that need to be upgraded to handle the kind of power he was putting down but the transe its self held up fine. I looked around and the 41te can be had for 2-400 on E-bay. I also checked into it and the 41te will bolt right into an 03+ neon. With a 3SPD neon you will need the TCM from the donor car and some way to send it a crank sensor signal it likes. This has been my gripe on people who just dismiss the ATX as being stupid for anything. The 41te actually will get better mileage then the 3SPD and its with in 2-3MPG of a 5SPD. I'm seriously considering doing the 41te in my 03 turboed.supercharged neon as it will be daily driven a lot and done so in heavy traffic. Something a big horsepower 5SPD will not be fun in at all.

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:10 am

I also have researched it, and that ATX won't handle anything over a stage 1 PT setup without failures. It will handle for a while, but then it will fail from everything I have been told, so that's not really a viable option unless you want a stock SRT powered ATX...

blue demon02 · Post by **blue demon02** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:51 am

TheRandom1 wrote:I also have researched it, and that ATX won't handle anything over a stage 1 PT setup without failures. It will handle for a while, but then it will fail from everything I have been told, so that's not really a viable option unless you want a stock SRT powered ATX...

only time will tell if it will hold up but I would say that half a dozen 10 second passes is damn good for it being totaly stock. And is verry promising for it to hold up well with maybe some small mods

hybrid-Srt2001 · Post by **hybrid-Srt2001** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:38 pm

if you don't plan on running a ton of power, go to the junkyard and get a 3 speed auto out of one of the old turbo cars. They're a "high torque" version and hold power better. For the $150 it will cost you, you cant go wrong even if it does eventually blow. Level ten also makes good high performance rebuild kits.

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:44 pm

blue demon02 wrote:only time will tell if it will hold up but I would say that half a dozen 10 second passes is damn good for it being totaly stock. And is verry promising for it to hold up well with maybe some small mods

http://www.ptcrew.com/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... highlight=

http://www.ptcrew.com/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... highlight=

After checking my research again, it'll hold up OK unless you hit it while cruising on the highway (OD is what fails)

blue demon02 · Post by **blue demon02** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:01 am

TheRandom1 wrote:
blue demon02 wrote:only time will tell if it will hold up but I would say that half a dozen 10 second passes is damn good for it being totaly stock. And is verry promising for it to hold up well with maybe some small mods
http://www.ptcrew.com/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... highlight=

http://www.ptcrew.com/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... highlight=

After checking my research again, it'll hold up OK unless you hit it while cruising on the highway (OD is what fails)

I was about to add that. In the info I had on it there was a big disclaimer about not using it well in OD. They are working on a fix for that. Just a weak part that can be replaced with a stronger one. That and some strunger clutch packs was the only thing the guy said it needed. He did say some tweaking of the MVB was needed. He also looking into why it was taking .02 to shift gears. Said the longest he got was .05 seconds to shift. Guess when your doing 10.1 every bit counts.

TheRandom1 · Post by **TheRandom1** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:50 am

My concern is that the PT ATX is for a 2.4 not a 2.0, I don't think they'll bolt up unless you're doing an SRT swap

Post by **occasional demons** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:26 am

If the 3speed bolts to the 2.4, why wouldn't it work the other way?
IIRC I read somewhere (wish I could find it again)the Turbo 3 ATX low gears were rated for over 1000 ft lbs of torque. Serious overkill, as IDK if the case would even survive that. I think they were thinking more on reliabitly tho.

NickKo · Post by **NickKo** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:16 pm

TheRandom1 wrote: http://www.ptcrew.com/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... highlight=

http://www.ptcrew.com/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... highlight=

Damn, need to log in to view those...

I'll try logging in to view those later (I'm at work right now.)
Thanks for the links, Sean !

- Nick