2000 ATX to MTX. None of the other threads covered it all.

Arro · Post by **Arro** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:50 pm

Alright, I've searched and seen the couple or so threads on people with 2000 Neons that want to go MTX from an ATX trans, but... there's only a couple well-discussed threads....

One deals with putting a hydro setup in an 2000. We all know about the firewall differences. I'm not interested in going with a later hydro setup.

The other thread asks about running a 1G MTX in a 2000. And I won't be doing that, either.

SO... Here's my situation. I have in my possession a 2000 MTX sitting on the floor of my garage. I also have a pedal assembly and shift cable assembly from a 2000. I also have an MTX axle because I know that on one side the MTX axle is different than the ATX.

SO, here is what I want to get nailed down:

- What other parts do I need? Seriously, I don't want vague lists. I want to know EXACTLY what I need. I'm going to be running with the Sebring clutch. My trans came with the shift arm. frankly I have no idea how that installs, it's not in the trans. I'm used to RWD transmissions where the shifter is directly in the trans. So FWD is new to me.

- What will I need to do wiring-wise? I've read somewhere on here that there's a neutral safety switch or some sort of solenoid I need to deal with. I don't want to be limited to 4K RPM's like the last guy who said in another thread, "Yeah that's ok I can live with that." I'd rather KEEP my ECU because it's SKIM and has the factory security system.

- Are there any issues I need to watch out for when I do this? I don't mean "How hard is this?" What I'm asking about is are there any particularly pesky parts to this sort of thing IN A 2GN. Every kind of car is a bit different. If you asked me how to motor swap in a Nissan S12 or S13 I could give you tons of good advice and personal experience, but this is a FWD Chrysler product and you guys have far more experience than I do. And like I said, I'm used to RWD. This FWD stuff is new to me. Knowing how it all comes together with shift and clutch cabling is going to help me.

So there it is. I want this thread to help me sort out all the things I need, all the things I need to do beyond just bolting in the trans, and any other important info. Thanks in advance for those who have the know-how to help me here.

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:07 pm

For the neutral safety switch, there's a round plug with 3 pins that goes into the transmission. One wire is power, there's a ground, and a signal wire. If you wire the ground and signal together it will start up but be limited to 4k. Once disconnected it will run and rev to 6750. You can wire this to the clutch safety switch but every time you shift you will encounter the 4k rev limiter. It may be useful for you to use as a launch control, but 4k is low. You can wire it to a switch, on to start, off to drive.

I'm not sure though if the speed sensor will work on the 00 atx ecu.

What do you mean the shift arm is not installed? Do you mean the clutch fork? Can you supply a picture? And what Sebring clutch are you planning on using?

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:57 pm

The 2000 cable trans is no different externally than the 1g trans, so the directions for using a 1st gen trans would be the same.

Arro · Post by **Arro** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:26 pm

Directions for.... wiring? Mechanical? This is where I need to know specifically.

Here is what I have so far:

So Jerry, would it be best to wire that neutral safety switch to the ignition switch? I mean it's just for starting the engine, right? So in theory if i wired it to the ignition switch, when i turned the key to start the engine, it would come on, and as soon as I backed off the starter it would switch off again (and let me get to my normal 6,750 rpm limit).... right?

gilly02le · Post by **gilly02le** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:28 pm

Wire it to the clutch interlock switch so its grounded when the pedal is to the floor, wont hit that limiter when shifting unless you really nail the clutch all the way to the floor. Works great for me, safer this way too!

Post by **occasional demons** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:28 pm

Long time, no see!

OK for the clutch fork, that round plastic ball below the top opening, you want to put some grease on it. You want the TOB on hand. Grease the part that pushes on the TOB. Put the cable end of the fork in the window. Slide the TOBon the shaft, and the fork into the TOB ears, then snap the fork onto the plastic ball. That is done.

If you had posted a week earlier, I could have taken pics of this exact part install, as I put a clutch in the 1gn while I was swapping engines.

Now, I am not 100% certain you will see 6750 RPM. IIRC, the ATX rev limit is 6000 or 6200, because the stock TC will not handle the higher RPM. What ever your current rev limiter is, is all you will get out of it, unless you go to an MTX unit.

The VSS signal should work with the MTX, but IDK if the drive and driven gears are compatible. You may need to use an MTX sender gear. If the MTX has the sender in it, you should be good.

I think the VSS only gets complicated when you have the 40/41te

You will need to run wiring for the reverse lights, either using part of the ATX's PNS switch circuit, or something along that line. I think I posted the wiring difference years back in one of those threads.

Arro · Post by **Arro** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:02 pm

Well, I also have this:

And I went to wipe it off to see the tag, and in doing so, the cheap ink Chrysler used started to rub off...

But if i remember, I pulled it out of a base model 5-speed. I don't think it has SKIM. I have no idea how I can tell, especially now that this tag is rubbed off.

I'm going to order the clutch kit this evening, which looks like it comes with the TOB.

Ok so let's see if I got this right...

TOB slides onto the input shaft, and #1 is what grabs it and moves it. I should grease the two "fingers" of the fork (and now I understand why it is called a shift fork).

#2 is designed to rest on #3, and therefore tells me which way to face it. I should grease #3 if I understood you right.

#4 is where the clutch cable connects.

#5 is what I believe you are talking about when you say "VSS"... which after a few minutes I guessed meant "Vehicle Speed Sensor". If so, then you see there is one already there in the trans.

Did I get all that right?

I have lots more questions...

I see there are some sort of seals where the half shaft axles go in. Should I replace them? Are there any other seals I should replace while I swap transmissions?

What is that lever on the top of the transmission for? Again, I'm totally unfamiliar with FWD MTX. Is that where the shift linkage cables connect?

Is it worth it to get these trans mount inserts from MP?

http://www.modernperformance.com/produc ... otormounts

I already have the AGP top and bottom dogbones. I was thinking of ordering the trans mount insert and the booger bushing kit.

Speaking of bushings, I see there's an ES urethane shifter base bushing kit... but I seem to remember someone long long ago here mentioning someone made machined steel versions. Is this true?

And speaking of shifters... Why are the short-throw options only listed for later 2GN and not 00? What is different? I guess I thought all the Neon MTX shift assemblies were the same (or nearly so).

What is a "PNS"? I will need more info on this if that's how I will have to resolve the reverse light operation.

I will need some more detail on how to wire the neutral safety switch into this "clutch interlock switch". I assume the neutral safety switch is a plug on the ATX. Where is it located? Where will the clutch interlock switch be located?

Also, are these ECU's flashable/modifiable?

If I run with that MTX ECU, does this just mean I no longer have security, or is that a separate feature? I have the SKIM module under my dash cover, I found it before. I am not sure what really the ECU handles or doesn't handle besides basic engine functions.

Also... anyone have a shifter cable bracket? If not, I spotted one online.

Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:26 pm

Arro wrote:Well, I also have this:

And I went to wipe it off to see the tag, and in doing so, the cheap ink Chrysler used started to rub off...

The PN should also be on the end, but not the VIN, which is what you need to know if it has SKIM.

But it looks like the last 6 or 7 digits may still be legible, so that might be enough. It is from a Plymouth, so possibly it doesn't have SKIM

What year is the PCM?

Did I get all that right?

You did.

I see there are some sort of seals where the half shaft axles go in. Should I replace them? Are there any other seals I should replace while I swap transmissions?

Yes, the axle seals should be replaced. Timken PN 3459S.

What is that lever on the top of the transmission for? Again, I'm totally unfamiliar with FWD MTX. Is that where the shift linkage cables connect?

Correct, should be two levers. I can't tell from the pic.

Is it worth it to get these trans mount inserts from MP?

I have no experience with those.

For shift bushings, get a set of Booger bushings, I would avoid the solid aluminum ones, they would need some lube, and probably wear faster than the Boogers. AFAIK, all shifters are the same, and the 1gn and 2gn can be used, but are a bit different from each other.

What is a "PNS"? I will need more info on this if that's how I will have to resolve the reverse light operation.

I assume the neutral safety switch is a plug on the ATX. Where is it located? Where will the clutch interlock switch be located?

PNS is Park Neutral Saftey Switch. I believe it is also the reverse light switch. It is the three pin plug on the ATX. The clutch switch should be on the pedal assy. You may have a lower switch for the interlock, and an upper switch for the up stop. The up stop is for Speed contol to disengage it when the clutch is pushed.

Also, are these ECU's flashable/modifiable?

Flashable, only in the sense of VIN/SKIM, or updates. Not much for performance. If you had NGC, there are some folks making progress with modifying the SRT pcms for use with different tunes, and the 2.0.

If I run with that MTX ECU, does this just mean I no longer have security, or is that a separate feature? I have the SKIM module under my dash cover, I found it before. I am not sure what really the ECU handles or doesn't handle besides basic engine functions.
If the MTX PCM is SKIM, you will need to have it and the car at the dealer to have it flashed to your VIN, and SKIM. I would drive it to the dealer on the ATX PCM to have this done.

If it is not SKIM, as soon as it sees the SKIM in your car, it will become a SKIM pcm permanently. Then your car will not start, because it will have no SKIM code to enter. It will not recognize the one in your car, thus why the VIN needs flashed to that PCM. You will need to take it to the dealer to get it fixed, like the above example.

If the SKIM module/antenna around the ign. cylider is unplugged, it will run your car, if it is not SKIM. Or if SKIM, it might run your car, and give a SKIM bus error code, but you will need to do the key dance to check for the code. This is what is occurring with my R/T pcm in my non skim car.

Edit:
viewtopic.php?t=52432&highlight=reverse ... g+mtx+swap

viewtopic.php?t=13079&highlight=reverse ... g+mtx+swap

Arro · Post by **Arro** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:57 pm

Ahhh so I have an MTX PCM.... meaning I should do my swap using the ATX PCM. Then drive the car down to a dealer, have then use my car's VIN to code the MTX PCM, then pop it into my car and enjoy the higher rev limit? Did I understand that right?

And also, what you said about the shifter suggests that I can use one of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DODGE-NEON-CHRO ... 0909529172

I see Rock Auto has those axle seals... I take it that part number isn't for a pair, just one... and I'll need to order two, yes?

Post by **occasional demons** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:15 pm

Yes two seals.

That shifter will only shorten the forward and back but not the crossover, IIRC.

Check out Maddog's shifters, a bit more $$ but he is a forum member, and makes STS in different percentages. From mild to extremely short shifts. Also does custom shifters.

The dealer will install the PCM into the car to flash it, so you should be able to just drive away with the PCM installed. You can then keep the ATX as a back up.

Arro · Post by **Arro** » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:38 pm

Damn I wonder how much that costs? Getting it installed I mean. Not cheap I imagine! I might be living with the 6200 limit for awhile lol.

What year is that Sebring clutch out of? I want to order this and the seals tonight. I remember it was either a Sachs, RhinoPac, or Brute Power. The Brute Power one comes with the TOB.

Edit: Found it, ordered from a 2002 Sebring 2.7 V6, the Brute Power w/ TOB. Also ordered two axle shaft seals. Also ordered a new, clean OEM shift boot and a shift cable bracket from Ebay (forgot the bracket before I saw that). About to go to MPx and get a couple other things, but I'm doin' this. Garage is cleaned out, space made. Surgery will be performed soon!

chipdogg · Post by **chipdogg** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:44 am

Don't get aftermarket seals, they tend to leak i've found. Get the OEM Mopar ones.

4761 107

$18.60 MSRP each, but I have new ones in stock. $25 shipped for 2.

Arro · Post by **Arro** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:02 pm

Too late, already ordered. If one leaks, I'll hit you up.