2GN.ORG

I searched on this and didnt find the answers i needed (for once haha) so i decided to post.

On Modern Performance and Hahn's website...it says there is only ONE kit that will fit 03-05 neons....the stage 2/FMIC system....its 4500 dollars.

But when you look up the kit for the 00-02 neon...and its only 3100 dollars. and its the same Stage 2/FMIC system.


why are they saying that only that ONE 4500 dollar kit is the only one that will fit 03-05??

b/c i have a 05 and i really dont want to spend 4500 dollars...but there is a guy that has a 2000 and is wanting to sell me his for 1600 dollars (minus the fuel pump which isnt expensive anyways)



HELP ASAP!!!

03-05 needs to have the portfueler for the Hahn Kit. So they say anyway. I'm not completely sure on that though.

doesnt it have something to do with the 'ngc' not giving it enough fuel and leaning it out? so they have the extra stock injectors in there to bump up the fuel output

You will have to have something to get around NGC.

i really have no idea what this NGC is. i keep looking it up but nothing has been proven so i am wondering about it...

You don't need the portfueler to get around the NGC since your not using the stock regulator to control fuel. If you dont use the Port Fueler or MS you would have the RRFPR and return line...

You all need to stop pretending to know the answers to the questions you have no clue about.

The difference between the 95-02 and the 03+ neons is indeed the NGC. The important difference between the ECUs in this situation is their EGO feedback ability at full throttle.

Older ECUs would just play dumb at full throttle, and go to a preset map with no bearing on the o2 sensors. This allowed you to use a rising rate fuel pressure regulator and tune your own fuel at WOT, as the ECU wouldn't argue with you.

NGC ECUs don't just play dumb at WOT. They still aim for a stoich (14.7:1 a/f ratio) mixture. The problem with this is that as you try to richen up the fuel mixture, the ECU will realize it's going rich and pull fuel trims to compensate.

The PortFueler kit has the advantage in that it doesn't rely on the stock ECU's fuel pulse widths. So sure the computer can pull out fuel, but the PortFueler adds more in with it's own injectors.

The other alternative that just because available Wed, thanks to Boost Junkie and myself, is MegaSquirt. With this, you can leave the stock fuel lines and regulators alone, and just run bigger injectors. About $500 for a full standalone including the couple other things you need.

So my own recommendation, is buy the turbo system minus the fuel system, 30 or 36 lb/hr injectors, and a MegaSquirt. That's the cheapest way to put together a turbo system without digging around for used deals and ebay parts. You should be less than 4k for the whole system, including the wideband a/f gauge.

What did I say that was wrong?

rOniN wrote:What did I say that was wrong?

Nothing really wrong. Just about as helpful as replying to the standard "How do I turbo my car" with a "Blow more air in the pipes"

thanks for that post eisteinier (sp?) it was really helpful, ive been wanting to hear a good description. nice man nice. we need that small thing stickied. hah.

esteinmaier wrote:You all need to stop pretending to know the answers to the questions you have no clue about.

The difference between the 95-02 and the 03+ neons is indeed the NGC. The important difference between the ECUs in this situation is their EGO feedback ability at full throttle.

Older ECUs would just play dumb at full throttle, and go to a preset map with no bearing on the o2 sensors. This allowed you to use a rising rate fuel pressure regulator and tune your own fuel at WOT, as the ECU wouldn't argue with you.

NGC ECUs don't just play dumb at WOT. They still aim for a stoich (14.7:1 a/f ratio) mixture. The problem with this is that as you try to richen up the fuel mixture, the ECU will realize it's going rich and pull fuel trims to compensate.

The PortFueler kit has the advantage in that it doesn't rely on the stock ECU's fuel pulse widths. So sure the computer can pull out fuel, but the PortFueler adds more in with it's own injectors.

The other alternative that just because available Wed, thanks to Boost Junkie and myself, is MegaSquirt. With this, you can leave the stock fuel lines and regulators alone, and just run bigger injectors. About $500 for a full standalone including the couple other things you need.

So my own recommendation, is buy the turbo system minus the fuel system, 30 or 36 lb/hr injectors, and a MegaSquirt. That's the cheapest way to put together a turbo system without digging around for used deals and ebay parts. You should be less than 4k for the whole system, including the wideband a/f gauge.

Bingo, and are you the einstein from a long long time ago?
Oh, and NGC is the 03-05 computer in the Neon. Its short for Next Generation Controller, and its realllllllllly smart.

So what types of modern electronic technology has DaimlerChrysler developed in their vehicles?
There’s plenty, like Chrysler’s Next Generation Controller (NGC). This powertrain controller consolidates both engine and transmission controllers into one unit providing better coordination between the two for excellent performance.

No. My handle is my first initial/last name.

esteinmaier wrote:Nothing really wrong. Just about as helpful as replying to the standard "How do I turbo my car" with a "Blow more air in the pipes"

lol now thats funny

Nothing really wrong. Just about as helpful as replying to the standard "How do I turbo my car" with a "Blow more air in the pipes"

wait, so the ONLY way around turbo'ing a NGC neon is the portfueler or MS?..........So something like a Split Second ARC-1 won't work? I know it worked on alot of pre NGC neons (00-02)

No, I believe a RRFPR and return line works.

He Hate Me wrote:No, I believe a RRFPR and return line works.

If you are OK with a 14.7:1 a/f ratio at full boost.

What about with an Apexi; SAFC Neo, Power FC, or S-AFC II? Any one of those work?

He Hate Me wrote:What about with an Apexi; SAFC Neo, Power FC, or S-AFC II? Any one of those work?

Short answer...no.

Longer answer...those options don't offer enough fuel tuning capability. In other words, they just aren't able adjust fuel enough to make them worth the while.


.Chris

esteinmaier wrote:If you are OK with a 14.7:1 a/f ratio at full boost.

worked fine for me for 40k+ miles at 8-16psi.

i went 14.1 @ 99.7 on 8psi. and made 172whp on same 8psi. and it ran really hard on 16 with no other mods. stok bottom end...

unsuper man wrote:worked fine for me for 40k+ miles at 8-16psi.

i went 14.1 @ 99.7 on 8psi. and made 172whp on same 8psi. and it ran really hard on 16 with no other mods. stok bottom end...

You got lucky... I wouldn't expect everyone to be so lucky.

For $4500, you can get a SRT Set-up (motor, turbo, trans, wiring harness, and cluster) if you look well enough, u'll probably have some left over for some upgrades like exhaust mods.

In any case, Good Luck

esteinmaier wrote:You got lucky... I wouldn't expect everyone to be so lucky.

lol, my friends would say otherwise. i beat that car to death. stock clutch for life. it started slipping after like 14passes in like one night at the track. this was after 10k miles of full bolt ons and a 75shot of nitrous. beat this car/motor t death for a long time. and it would still be running if i could figure out the electircal thing keeping the ASD relay from clicking over. when it runs again, im going for 275whp on stock bottom end with no head shim..