Weber's helpful info on turbocharging.

Have a question related to Turbos, Nitrous, Supercharging, ect... ask it here.
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weber
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Weber's helpful info on turbocharging.

Post by weber » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:59 am

I still see posts daily asking the same question that’s been asked for who knows how long.

“How much PSI can I run stock” seems to be the big question in this particular forum. Let me answer that question. It all depends on your Horsepower and Torque your laying down. Seems to be 250 Wtq is the threshold here. The rods are the weak link in the neon bottom end.
If you want your car to handle the power you throw at it, your going to need a bottom end build.. Here is a link to a trusted companies products I’d use.

http://www.modernperformance.com/dcx/eagle_rods.shtml looking $350
http://www.modernperformance.com/dcx/je ... piston.jpg looking $450

Now, there are other brands you can go with…but that just happens to be what Modern Performance has on hand. Use what you’d like.

Now your bottom end can handle some more abuse. The rods are MUCH stronger, and the pistons are a forged material which can handle the abuse that a high boosting turbocharger can throw at it. See, its not just about air pressure. Its about heat. Heat is the big killer in your engines. Now your prepared to take on the power and the heat.

1. It can melt your pistons
2. It changes your air density
3. Cause detonation
4. ….many other reasons. Look a little deeper ;)

PSI means almost nothing. You can run 20 PSI on a stock SRT turbo. You can also run 20 PSI on a Super20g turbo. Question is, which one is more efficient at 20 PSI? A bigger turbo can push more air with less restriction. That causes less heat building up in the turbo, which then allows easier airflow. Go look up ‘air density’ again. Pressure and density are two different things. I’m no science major so I won’t elaborate too much on that. Cause then this post sure won’t make me look smart now, will it?

Here is a look at compressor maps of 2 different turbos.

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/TurboMaps/t3-s60.gif
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/Turbo ... 06-20g.jpg

You can see (just look at it for a minute, you’ll understand it) these are two very different turbos. And at the same boost level there is going to be a major difference in efficiency. Its all about AIRFLOW, not PSI.

No matter what you do, your turbo is going to produce HEAT, and lots of it. That is why it is very important to implement an INTERCOOLER. Intercooler huh, sure my friend has one laying blah blah blah. Who cares. You don’t want to buy or use just any intercooler. Once again, you want one that will be the most efficient for YOUR TURBO. I personally am running an SRT-4 turbo on my neon. Would I want to install my friends extremely large TT Supra front mount on my neon? Well its huge, it must cool down the air really good, right? Well yes, but its also going to take a lot of pressure to move air through it, resulting in a loss of PSI seen in the actual intake manifold. My turbo may be pushing 20 psi right from the turbo, but maybe only 14 psi to the engine now due to the loss at the intercooler. Volume, pressure, density, etc. All of this plays a huge role in how your turbocharger is going to perform.

Ok, so now you have the basics understood. You know you need to build your bottom end to handle the extra abuse a turbocharger is going to dish out. You understand how a turbo works a little better. Now your ready to make some power and go really really fast, right?? Not so much. Your engine is able to handle it now, and it will produce some great power….only if you are getting proper fuel to it.

There are a few options out there now that weren’t there back in the good ol neon days. Those few options are called Mega Squirt! It is the best thing to hit the turbocharged neon world. You still have the option of using a standard RRFPR (such as Chillfactory, Begi, and Vortech). You need to decide what your goals are, and how much power your wanting to make. I really don’t want to go into this anymore. You know the names now, do some research. I will tell you this. Tuning is the most important part of your setup, so read and read and read before you just go throwing boost at your car. If you don’t do it right your engine WILL blow up.

So time for power. Setup should be good for XXX HP. Well…get ready to toast your clutch! The stock neon clutch really isn’t known for holding too much power. Granted we did have a neon that ran 13.1 on slicks with the stock clutch. Just don’t expect to make many more runs like that. You need to look into upgrading ASAP. I’d recommend doing it before you even turbocharge. Less stuff to move out of the way, and hell, you’re going to have to do it anyway.

I recommend saving a little money by switching back to a non-modular clutch. You do this by getting your hands on a 1995 Neon flywheel. You have other aftermarket options, but this seems to do great. Use what you feel is necessary.


Anyway, I think this write up should give some of the new members (and maybe even older ones) a good idea on what you are looking at before you turbocharge. It’s definitely not a cheap hobby to get into. There is plenty of maintenance and expenses that keep coming after the install. So plan ahead and know what your getting yourself into.

Happy boosting!

-Weber
02 FlameRed SXT. (SOLD)
2010 Subaru WRX STI

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lethalp1mp
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Post by lethalp1mp » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:38 pm

Well said. Don't forget, tuning tuning tuning, then fun.
2002 Black Neon R/T - Turbo + MegaSquirt
2010 White Chevy Malibu LT - DD

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rOniN
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Post by rOniN » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:50 pm

nice write up...all of the basics are covered and after this, research would be easier.
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-Chad
2009 Dodge Viper VOI #66
2010 Dodge Ram Power Wagon - Sold
2010 Dodge Challenger SRT-8 - Sold
2009 Dodge Challenger SRT-8 -Sold
2004 Dodge Neon SRT-4 - Sold
1998 Dodge Neon R/T

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Post by FTWNeon » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:17 pm

Very Nice, Stickied!
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2001 Dodge Neon ACR
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yellowpatrol
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Post by yellowpatrol » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:08 am

So you recommend a used clutch from 1995 over an aftermarket one?
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Adionik wrote:On a 100% stock SRT engine i've seen detonation on 93 octane, I know what i'm talking about.

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Post by srtminime » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:26 pm

Only to get a non-modular setup, meaning it comes as seperate items bolted together, instead of one PnP Unit...

That said, reading owns you...
'95 Sport Coupe "MiniMe" SCCA SMF Racer
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Post by tytheneonguy » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:28 pm

Opinions on cylinder head shims to lower the CR & is it true the magnum rods are the same metallurgy as the srt4 rods? Trying to find the thread on boosting my R/T swap using the stock internals
02 atx Neon: K&N Typhoon CAI, MPX 60mm tb, MSD wires, Pulstar plugs, 14" American Racing "Estrella" wheels, Powerslot Rotors, Hawk hps pads, Unortodox U.D.P. Gates Racing timing belt, Prothane Race m.m. inserts W.T.B. A604/41TE torque converter

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Post by occasional demons » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:13 pm

tytheneonguy wrote: is it true the magnum rods are the same metallurgy as the srt4 rods?
Yes, they are supposed to be the same material, but they are not the same strength. SRT rods are beefier. The actual amount of strength over regular 2.0 rods is debatable.

It was prolly more like cheap insurance for warranty, as the Magnum engines were mated to 3.94 MTX's, so they are consistently spinning faster than their 3.55 MTX/ATX equipped counterparts. The rev limit is also supposed to be 50 RPM higher, but I don't see it with my '02 R/T pcm. But then it would be hard to tell with the factory tach.

Shims will give you two gaskets to leak vs one.
Bill
dblsg wrote:ya'll a bunch of post whores
Seriously people, this is 2019 not 1920.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap
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tytheneonguy
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Post by tytheneonguy » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:21 pm

Thanks for that bit of info Bill :D I'll be running a Hahn race craft 16g Turbo I've been told by some buddies to keep it @ 7psi I'm wordering if its safe to do that on the R/T's 9.8:1 CR without shims?
02 atx Neon: K&N Typhoon CAI, MPX 60mm tb, MSD wires, Pulstar plugs, 14" American Racing "Estrella" wheels, Powerslot Rotors, Hawk hps pads, Unortodox U.D.P. Gates Racing timing belt, Prothane Race m.m. inserts W.T.B. A604/41TE torque converter

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Post by occasional demons » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:27 pm

With the proper tune, 9.8:1 is fine. You just don't have as much flexibility to tune with.
Bill
dblsg wrote:ya'll a bunch of post whores
Seriously people, this is 2019 not 1920.
Too much time spent here is a sign of a bad case of Ownaneonvirus.

2000 Neon MTX swap with '02 R/T PCM
1999 neon coupe 2.4 swap
Help support 2GN!

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