Supercharger

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:55 pm

Yeah Buddy,
Someone who knows there shit!
I'm glad im not the only one that can confuse people

Lonewolf Performance · Post by **Lonewolf Performance** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:21 pm

You have lower octane needs with boost than you do with high compression and boost. general rule of thumb is you can run 3 more psi of boost for every point of compression lost. example, if you have 9.1:1 and drop it to 8.1:1 you will be able to run 3 more psi of boost. it's a trade off because you will make more power with more compression and boost, but you need higher octane fuel and will be more sensitive to timing and detonation. I personally like my compression in the 8.0 to 8.5:1 range for a street car because I like to be able to take it up to 18 psi on the street. For a race car, I would have no problem with it in the 9.5-10.5:1 range. Also on this supercharger set up, we need to consider the ais or I guess its called the iac on a neon. I think this is what they were modyfing for the mustang throttle body. Their tps uses 5 volts just like our neon ones, the plug would have to be changed. But it may work. The GM one is a 3 bolt set up and it would be far easier to machine a new adapter and just use a neon throttle body, but it may not flow enough air.

Novajoe · Post by **Novajoe** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:07 am

man. I wish someone would come up with a supercharger route. I would deff do that. For what I'm doing I'd rather go with a supercharger than a turbo charger.

mospaxreton · Post by **mospaxreton** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:33 am

Novajoe wrote:man. I wish someone would come up with a supercharger route. I would deff do that. For what I'm doing I'd rather go with a supercharger than a turbo charger.

Hey Novajoe, havent you been keeping up with this post ? lol, I assume not. Lonewolf is on the project to building the supercharger route for us. haha, we are all waiting for the finished product... Hope all goes well.

Lonewolf Performance · Post by **Lonewolf Performance** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:51 pm

This is a pretty difficult project. So far, we have a choice, loose the power steering which is not an option to me, or I'm going to have to figure out how to move it and get some new lines made. I need the space where it resides or the only other mounting choice is going to be to remote mount it over the exhaust with a heat shield. You could then intercool it, but any exhaust manifold work is going to be a bitch because your going to have to remove a supercharger, heat shield and the brackets that bolt it to the engine. There is simply not enough room to mount it how I would like, but we'll just have to work around that.

DjTransifi · Post by **DjTransifi** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:59 pm

Lonewolf, if it needs to be mounted over the exhaust manifold, so be it. Look at it like this, even though a turbo is connected to the manifold any manifold project even with a turbo would still be a bitch.. Thats the price you pay for adding more power.. I say go for it and anyone that want to do manifold work to there car will just have to work around it.. Thats just my 2 cents though..

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:45 pm

Right on top of the exhaust manifold w/heatshield is one of the options I was considering. It would be tight, but you could bolt/modify another 4kx pulley on the alternator and drive it off of that. No room for a 6kx though because it's that tight.

Matt

mospaxreton · Post by **mospaxreton** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:21 am

Like I said. Who needs ps? hheheeh, I know you fellas like it, but after a while you'll get use to it ! trust me. Anyway if you can make it in that spot. I have my ps and ac torn out so I have a LOT of space there... Jus my 2 pennies

DjTransifi · Post by **DjTransifi** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:32 am

AC has to stay... I drove a Buick Skylark w/o PS for 2 years so i was used to that.. I rather not loose my PS.. One of the perks with getting a new car not to mention the AC.. Its needed for us guys n gals down in the south..

Lonewolf Performance · Post by **Lonewolf Performance** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:54 pm

Ok here's an update, what I'm looking into doing is remove the Ps and relocating it with some custom brackets above the alt. I know you guys need the A/C AND PS, so that's my option now. I don't really like mounting it remote over the header because of heat soak. But you could intercool with that set up. We may try to make both and see how it fits and works. If any of you have ideas, concerns, now is the time to voice them. One thing to also consider, the stock pulley is a serpantine and the alt belt is a v belt. Going to have to address that when we get there. If you guys are more interested in remote mount So you can intercool it, it would not require a custom intake then. If you are interested in having it in the front let me know as this kit is for you guys. And if both look like they would work, then we may offer both as it would be alot cheaper to remote mount it.

mospaxreton · Post by **mospaxreton** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:20 pm

Honestly I think it'd be a lot nicer sitting up in front... But like you said try both out see which is more reliable and which gives better gaines.. Also why would it be cheaper to remote mount it? Just wondering.... Is it the custom intake?

Lonewolf Performance · Post by **Lonewolf Performance** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:39 am

Better gains would probably be had by the option of intercooling, but then again, using methonol you could cool it that way mounted up front too. Yes, making a custom intake is about 15-18 hrs of machine time, then tig welding and powder coating. So it would make it more expensive. Once brackets were mocked up for the remote mount and deemed for final production, they would be out sourced to a cnc shop to keep our mill open for building intakes. I myself would like to use one of our intakes because of the results we have had on turbo cars using them over stock intakes. Imagine 1/2 of a tunnel ram with a nice fat radius cut into it. It would also be interesting to see how it worked on a magnum head vs a regular sohc head.

mospaxreton · Post by **mospaxreton** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:40 am

Lonewolf Performance wrote:Better gains would probably be had by the option of intercooling, but then again, using methonol you could cool it that way mounted up front too. Yes, making a custom intake is about 15-18 hrs of machine time, then tig welding and powder coating. So it would make it more expensive. Once brackets were mocked up for the remote mount and deemed for final production, they would be out sourced to a cnc shop to keep our mill open for building intakes. I myself would like to use one of our intakes because of the results we have had on turbo cars using them over stock intakes. Imagine 1/2 of a tunnel ram with a nice fat radius cut into it. It would also be interesting to see how it worked on a magnum head vs a regular sohc head.

Yea I was thinking, why wouldnt you still have a intercooler even if its mounted up front..?

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:13 am

not enough room.....
Unless they built one between the charger and the manifold....
This is the charger they should be using!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-Thu ... 6427QQrdZ1

or they can try this type of setup....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/powerdyn ... 8805QQrdZ1

Casketbearer · Post by **Casketbearer** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:47 am

I personally like it up front- ease of access, and a custom intake manifold at the same time

Lonewolf Performance · Post by **Lonewolf Performance** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:41 pm

Casketbearer, hey bud, you 'll get yours how ya like. I need you to call me anyway. I'm trying to make this kit as a 2 option deal. But we just have to see. I think I have a guy to let me test fit it in. Casketbearer will see how it runs.

DjTransifi · Post by **DjTransifi** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:18 pm

ok.. So let me get this right.. If you mount it on the front you have to make a custom intake manifold and if mounted in the back you don't? Must of gotten lost somewhere.. The least expensive / reliable way sounds best to me.. The lower the build cost for you, the more profit you make.. As long as its reliable and produces good numbers. To tell you the truth... Our neons are what 132 or 138 horse power??? 50 / 75 / 100 increase would be great.. The more the better but I would be happy with 50 / 70 gains... You can always get that with a wet shot but I much rather hear my car with a SC whine.. Do the M60s have whine??

Lonewolf Performance · Post by **Lonewolf Performance** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:30 am

There's barely enough room for the supercharger and intake. The new intake and sc take the place of the stock intake because of being front mounted. there is no room to sandwich an aftercooler on it while mounted on the front. With it in the back, you can use the stock intake because your feed pipe is coming from the back and you could intercool before going to the manifold. There is going to be alot of machining either way, but less with it in the back of the motor.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:17 am

found this page this morning:
http://www.gatorsuperchargers.net/photos/photos.htm

Here is a link to give you a general idea on how its going to be setup:
http://harvii.tripod.com/
If you scroll down to the supercharger link, it will take you to a discussion on the M90 install on a 3.0V6. Lonewolf is trying to explain a setup like this where the output of the supercharger can goto an intercooler before it hits the throttlebody.
I am not affiliated with lonewolf performance and neither was the link above. I just used that link to give some type of an idea on a possible setup.And yes lonewolfs setup wont be as crude as the link above!

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:37 pm

BlackRoseRacing wrote:found this page this morning:
http://www.gatorsuperchargers.net/photos/photos.htm

Home made Vortech centrifugal super charger. That's so micky mouse. He should have just bought the Vortech and had some free time.

Matt

Lonewolf Performance · Post by **Lonewolf Performance** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:05 pm

Well, I talked with Mr. Greer and as of now, it's going to be a remote mount set up as 1. It will be cheaper to make, 2. it will be able to yield better results because of being able to add an intercooler, 3. it will not require a custom throttle body or intake as you can use your existing one or an aftermarket one if you choose to do so down the road. So far it looks like it will mount between the head and firewall.

mospaxreton · Post by **mospaxreton** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:17 pm

Damn sad to say but with this stupid drag net op's here in California dumbass arnold , looks like I might just trade my car in and get a SRT-4 . Rather be in debt paying for a car I have in my possession than paying the Fn' cops and arnold to get my car back after they take it away for having modifications. Now if I had the money I'd buy a commuter car and keep this neon and mod it only to take it to the track, but haven't made up my mind. Sorry for my long rant, hope the project goes well.

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:11 pm

Wow, just for kicks I whipped mine out today. This is going to give a new meaning to the word tight

For sure I'm going to have to relocated the coolant reservoir too. It'll be at least another week or so before I start playing with it again, so we'll see. Biggest challange is definately going to be mounting it.

Matt

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:51 pm

its a given, if you mount the SC near the EX manifold, you can't have cruise control....and you have to create some other form of a coolant bottle....oh darn....
Who needs cruise when your hauling ass? coolant resevoir....s$it i've seen the muscle car guys use a mountan dew bottle! they get no crap about it, as long as it works...

fixitmattman · Post by **fixitmattman** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:56 pm

I don't have cruise

Matt

Lonewolf Performance · Post by **Lonewolf Performance** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:59 pm

Well, by mounting it over the exhaust manifold, you can then use the stock GM throttle body (Gutted out of course) and use it for an adapter for cold air and then use you stock throttle body. It would be a good idea to get the 55 or 60mm throttle body (I think Modern sells them) Either way, it would open up the door hopefully to use the M90 or if some of you are insane, you could try the M112 to try to build a killer, but probably not streetable race car. This is going to be remote mount for sure. It's easier to do for me, and will end up costing less for you and upgradable so it's a win-win.

05srt4clone · Post by **05srt4clone** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:14 pm

So what are the prices looking like?

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:02 am

hey lonewolf, and progress or install pics?
what about even mock up pics?

Lonewolf Performance · Post by **Lonewolf Performance** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:11 pm

We don't have any pics yet, still taking final measurments. Remember, measure twice, cut once.

Gotta make sure we have everything measured out for all clearence issues. This kit has to be made perfect and easy to install, and be able to make good power and make it upgradable in the future.

dawm · Post by **dawm** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:59 pm

EvilCreations wrote:With A LOT of time, MONEY, and patience......you could probably make a centrigual type sc work on a neon......but a roots style wouldn't work because the intake is not on top of a neon motor like 03-SXT stated......

im a little behind on this topic, but when i was bored last year i did alot of diggin on the srt-4 supercharged concept. they used a eaton roots style s/c on the original concept (i had a huge post on DNO with pictures but it appears to no longer exist)

the centrigual type is what they use one popular kit for the stratus (v6), removing the a/c system was my idea, and it frees up a nice chunk of space near the belts

but that puts everything really close to the ground/near water. i did find my partially flamed post on .org ( http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t=199635 )

just my 2 cents

remember im stupid, so feel free to flame