Need test car in IL - 2GN turbo kit

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:17 pm

Len Ayala and I are happy to announce that we will be offering complete turbo systems for ALL 2gn neons, including ALL 00-05 model SOHC engines.

The kit will be offered with an internally wastegated Garrett T3/T4 hybrid turbo, running at approximately 10psi for NGC engines, and 8psi for pre-NGC engines.

We will offer 2 versions of the system. The standard system will utilize the stock fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator. The enhanced kit will also offer a return line fuel system and upgraded fuel pump for higher power levels later. Both systems will include a front mount intercooler.

It will also be offered with a MegaSquirt ECU. Bring your own laptop and wideband, and make 250whp on your stock engine.

The competition offers a system for over $4700 without control over spark advance. Our kit will be offered for less money, making more power, and will be much more easily upgraded for big power with a built motor.

The system will be modeled after my own system, however will have some substantial improvements in intercooling, easy upgrades to an external wastegate for higher power levels, and already has all the bugs worked out that I experienced in building my own system. (There were quite a few) I have been able to propel my car down the 1/4 mile in 12.6 seconds on the stock engine. You can do it too for less money than you would spend for a kit that does not offer nearly as much.

For the first kit offered, we need to find a test car that we can use for final fitment of model-specific parts, development of the installation manual, and fine tuning fuel/spark maps so that the system is ready to run without paying a performance shop to tune the system.

Requirements:
The car must be equipped with a manual transmission and in good running condition. The closer to factory stock, the better. 03+ neons are preferred, although 00-02 neons will be considered. A wideband o2 sensor will need to be included with the car. If you do not already have one, we can purchase one for you. An upgraded clutch such as the PT Cruiser N/A clutch is recommended, and will be installed for minimal cost if you should choose to purchase one. Again, we can purchase it for you if you require it but do not yet own one.

The car will need to be left in our possession for approximately 1 week, although 2 weeks may be required depending on problems that we may run into. The installation will be done in the Chicagoland area. If the car is not local, transportation of the car is your own responsibility.

You are purchasing the turbo system at a price of $3000. This will include all hardware, labor for installation, and tuning for the enhanced kit including the upgraded fuel system. A deposit of $1000 will need to be secured to reserve this special pricing.

We assume the car is in good running condition when it is delivered. If a problem is uncovered during installation that must be repaired, we will inform you of the problem, and either offer to fix it for you, or require that a specialized mechanic repairs it before continuing with the installation.

Photographs of your car during installation will be used for development of the installation manual as well as advertisement for the system. You understand that the intellectual property is owned entirely by us, and you relinquish all rights to it.

If your car meets the requirements, and you wish to take advantage of this 1-time offer, send details of your car and it's current mileage, as well as any modifications that have been performed to erick@racing-midwest.com for consideration.

Hudson_Neon · Post by **Hudson_Neon** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:59 pm

damn i wish my car wasn't my daily driver. i'd totally go for this!

Wenuden · Post by **Wenuden** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:26 pm

congratz on the busniess venture. now can you please explain to me how 2gn 2.0 SOHC's are making more power on less PSI than a stock srt?

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:39 pm

An SRT4 uses lower compression internals. 8.1:1 if I remember right. So 14psi on an 8.1:1 = 232psi compressed. A normal NGC uses 9.3:1 compression internals. So 10psi on a 9.3:1 = 229psi compressed. That's not the only factor, but it's the main one.

That's also why we spec the NGC kit to 10psi, but the earlier motors with 9.8:1 compression we have specced to run 8psi.

The lower displacement will typically move the powerband up quite a bit, so the power is at a higher RPM, but it's still there regardless.

I will be tuning the cars to a 7200 RPM rev hard cut limiter, with a redline of 7000 on a soft limiter. You'll notice that's a lot hotter than the SRTs are running.

Hudson_Neon · Post by **Hudson_Neon** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:42 pm

you've probably researched this more, but i thought my service manual said my 2004 has 9.4:1?

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:47 pm

Everything I have read implies 9.3:1. If the material I have studied is incorrect, I apologize, but I'm very confident the NGC motors are equipped with 9.3:1 compression internals.

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:58 pm

It has been said since I started reading online Neon forums that the 03+ neons have 9.3:1 compression.

Hudson_Neon · Post by **Hudson_Neon** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:59 pm

that's fine, like i said, you've studied this subject ALOT more than i have. you're probably right. i don't even have the manual handy to check. then again, my manual isn't exactly MINE

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:24 pm

Duuuuuuude

It sucks I'm so far away and so broke *cries*.

Besides the fact I need my stock computer for emissions. Would you offer something so that you could swap out to the stock computer easily enough so that you can pass emissions and then go back?

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:29 pm

That is part of the plan. I'll be doing the wiring in such a way that you should only need to unplug the "sandwich" harness from between the stock wiring and the ECU, and you'll be up and running. In order to pass emissions, I'd still recommend bolting up the stock exhaust manifold though.

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:30 pm

Erick is also working on a harness that will allow you to retain the OEM computer for emissions. No cutting and splicing of the OEM harness.

edit: he beat me to it. that would suck taking the turbo off every two years. but as long as the computer doesnt throw codes then you should be fine.

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:33 pm

I would just undo the boost pipe. MD dosen't look under the hood.

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:34 pm

Yup, all they did for me was check the gas cap, make sure the cat was there and plug into the computer.

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:36 pm

invujerry wrote:I would just undo the boost pipe. MD dosen't look under the hood.

Not if you want your turbo to survive. You'd overspin the heck out of it. Although I suppose you could block the pipe off and rely on the BOV to relieve the pressure while still maintaining some resistance to keep the turbo from eating itself.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:00 pm

Awesome, I love it - I have wanted to do a turbo system since day one, but never could save up the money (since I have spent 5 grand on this car, I should have just never touched it and saved

)... I want to ask a few questions though:

1. Will this be 2.0 specific or are there gonna be differnces between the Magnum and non-mag motors?

2. Megasquirt - what version, and are the maps gonna be provided and tuning done?

3. I thought I read that it would be tuned, etc - does this mean on a dyno, or by use of wideband and megasquirt?

4. Is the turbo/mani going to be the srt or is this all custom stuff? Intercooler for the 00-02 cars going to be able to fit without cutting a bunch of stuff? And will it fill that hole in the bottom completely?

5. Are you saying that you need to have a pt clutch and wideband for install of this turbo system, or is it all included in the system?

I am sure some of my questions seem vauge, so I can elaborate if you need me too.

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:40 pm

kc2002acr wrote:Awesome, I love it - I have wanted to do a turbo system since day one, but never could save up the money (since I have spent 5 grand on this car, I should have just never touched it and saved )... I want to ask a few questions though:

1. Will this be 2.0 specific or are there gonna be differnces between the Magnum and non-mag motors?

Right now, we are offering it for the standard non-magnum engines. It could bolt up to a Magnum engine as well, but efficiency in the exhaust manifold may not be ideal. Also, a Magnum will require more tuning.

2. Megasquirt - what version, and are the maps gonna be provided and tuning done?

Currently, we plan to offer the kits with MS1 V3. It will come with a map installed that should be very close to a good tune, but due to variances in temperature, atmospheric pressure, exhaust systems, etc. we recommend to perform a final tune once installed.

3. I thought I read that it would be tuned, etc - does this mean on a dyno, or by use of wideband and megasquirt?

The "test car" that we are allowing for will have the burden of being tuned with a wideband on the street. I will probably need to burn an entire tank of fuel to get enough datalogging done to get sufficient data. The resulting tune is what will be distributed with the systems that are ordered.

4. Is the turbo/mani going to be the srt or is this all custom stuff? Intercooler for the 00-02 cars going to be able to fit without cutting a bunch of stuff? And will it fill that hole in the bottom completely?

We will not be using an SRT-4 intercooler. Ours is expected to be of similar quality, but with a higher capacity.

5. Are you saying that you need to have a pt clutch and wideband for install of this turbo system, or is it all included in the system?

Our test vehicle will need to be equipped with such equipment to be able to sufficiently bring the motor to it's limits and tune it properly. If the owner of the car does not have such equipment, we will install it for them at minimal cost (much less than a repair shop would charge) but it is not included, and will not be included in the final kit. We must recommend that everyone using our kits have such equipment, but it should run without it provided the tune we provide is performing properly, and the stock clutch is in prime condition. The stock clutch will not handle all the power the kit can help your engine to make, however. And you won't know if the tune is good without monitoring your engine's A/F ratio with a wideband.

I am sure some of my questions seem vauge, so I can elaborate if you need me too.

oj · Post by oj » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:31 am

Hey Erick, lemme know if you have trouble finding a donor car. I'm fairly fed up with of my Hrc crap, have a 3 month old PT luk clutch, and don't drive the car much. But I don't have 3 large sitting in the bank right now lol.

Gl to u and Len

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:15 am

oj wrote:Hey Erick, lemme know if you have trouble finding a donor car. I'm fairly fed up with of my Hrc crap, have a 3 month old PT luk clutch, and don't drive the car much. But I don't have 3 large sitting in the bank right now lol.

Gl to u and Len

You could always look for a buyer for your kit, and use the $ toward ours. I'm sure we could save you even more money seeing as you already have a return line set up with a decent fuel pump.

GrApHite03 · Post by **GrApHite03** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:55 pm

Congrats! wish you the best... It's nice to see some competition out there for "the other guys."

I'm shying away from the neon game, but my wife still drives one. Maybe after she drive my next project she may want boost of her own. :evil grin:

best of luck!
k3v

Mr Josh Zombie · Post by **Mr Josh Zombie** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:59 pm

damn, I wish i had 3k sitting around. I have the perfect car for you.

03 SXT manual with a shade over 26k miles and NOTHING wrong with it. Not to mention i can go a month without my car no problems.

ah well. good luck!

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:49 pm

Seems so. Well, if things change, or you decide to borrow the money, let me know.

60trim · Post by **60trim** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:08 pm

Good luck with this man. Will be following this closely and will be available if you need some help locating some parts.

danman132x · Post by **danman132x** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:04 pm

If I had the money and time, I would be up there in a heartbeat to get this done.

Post by **jonnymopar** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:36 pm

Hudson_Neon wrote:you've probably researched this more, but i thought my service manual said my 2004 has 9.4:1?

You might be thining of the non-turbo 2.4L. That engine is 9.4:1.

$3000 tuning included is an INCREDIBLE price. You're looking at $5000 to do the same with a different kit. Well done Erick.

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:47 pm

Yes, and even with this great opportunity, I have yet to have anyone jump on it. To ask a local performance shop to do this same work for you, I would expect to see a bill upwards of 8k, with 15+ hours of labor at around $100/hr, as well as 5+ hours of tuning, usually priced even higher. By the way, those aluminum bushings work great.

jckevns · Post by **jckevns** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:11 pm

If only I had an mtx

Someone better do this for all of us

esteinmaier · Post by **esteinmaier** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:50 pm

We'll put the kit on an ATX, but keep in mind that we will take NO responsibility for how well the drivetrain will hold up. We prefer to tune the kit on an MTX though, simply because it's easier to tune and we know that we can run it to the limit of the motor.

turbodudey · Post by **turbodudey** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:28 pm

but keep in mind that we will take NO responsibility for how well the drivetrain will hold up. We prefer to tune the kit on an MTX though, simply because it's easier to tune and we know that we can run it to the limit of the motor

The ATX is a stronger transmission than the MTX. If you're just worried about the tranny holding up to 200 or so HP, the ATX is the stouter of the two trannies.

Sure a MTX is definitly more fun to drive, but the ATX is always the first choice when pure performance is the goal. Well... maybe not always. Autocross=MTX, drag racing=ATX... and so on.

BlackRoseRacing · Post by **BlackRoseRacing** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:52 am

^^^
Agree'd, with the diff pin savers installed and a large trani cooler to keep the temps down the 4speed will be able to handle more power than the T350 trani.....
T350= 350nm or 258ft/lbs of torque capacity
4speed ATX = ? (not exactly sure)

60trim · Post by **60trim** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:28 pm

To bad I don't live in the Chitown area, Id gladly help out with this endevor. 3k for a kit like this OWNS.