hybrid cars vs flex fuel (loooong rant post)

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:51 pm

people file for patents for one of two reasons

1. they have a patentable idea that will make them money.

2. they have an idea that would be patentable by someone else and would lead to less profits for the company

dinetuner · Post by **dinetuner** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:02 pm

why woudnt they try to expand and so there profits and logievty wil continue to prolong and increase?!... no im not talking about a sex pill...hahah

bone-yard-racing · Post by **bone-yard-racing** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:50 pm

According to the inventer of the Ovanaic battery there is no reason that it couldn't perform just a good if not better than any hydrogen system in existance. The oil companys want to stick with hydrogen because it gives them something to run around the country and makes the driver pump it into his tank meaning they still make money. You might ask why Ovanaic sold out to GM and the simple reason is that it occured in 1990 when electric cars were unheard of to most people and Stan Oshinkisky(sp) was going broke (its a shame to have a product that noone can use).

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:35 pm

I know this is a really old post but now that I have been driving a Prius almost all year (20,000 miles) I have first hand info about it.....

My overall average fuel economy is right around 47mpg. While this sounds awesome, it is not. I did a cost comparison of a brand new Toyota Prius and a brand new Dodge Caliber. Using EPA fuel economy ratings it would take 7 years driving 15,000 miles per year to pay back the cost difference. If I am able to get the post that I made off of PriusChat (I was banned from there

) then I will post that. The best all highway was driving from Pittsburgh to home (north eastern maryland) on the turnpike. That net 56mpg.

This is a huge problem to me because Baltimore traffic sucks: if you end up in stop and go a lot the hybrid battery will eventually drain itself. Then how does it recharge, well by running the gas engine and thus burns gas. This will really put a hurting on your fuel economy. I haven't researched how the A/C, PS, heat, etc is powered. However, I would assume that it too is powered off of the hybrid battery. This is because you still have all of those features when the gas engine is off.

These cars are not made for tall people. I could really have the seat move back a few inches to be comfortable. It took a little bit to "break in" the seats since I'm a bigger guy, but now the seats are pretty good.

Cost of operation seems pretty low because apparently it uses the electric motor to brake except in certain situations. The air filter and cabin filter are pretty reasonable, so long as you don't get them from the dealer. The dealer wanted around $90 for the pair, but I found them for $40ish. The plugs are 100,000mile plugs. There is no timing belt. I haven't had to do anything with the CVT yet and we will have to see how long the batteries last.

Because of the nature of my job I will burn up a car quicker than most people. This year was a light year since I was new and learning. Plus I got the car in mid February, and it currently has 20,000 miles on it. I would take a guess that by the end of next year it will be between 50,000 and 60,000 miles.

Nitehawk did a little searching for me since I am IP banned and probably have the "ban cookie." This is the exact post that I made.

Roomy? HA, what a joke. This is the most uncomfortable car that I have driven. I'd pick a Miata over this car when it comes to size. My Neon has worlds more room.

The spending more than the gas will be saving is a valid argument. You buy the car solely for increased fuel economy. You can't even get a tax break on them anymore, so that takes that perk away.

The prius is soooooooooooooooo boring to drive. It is so lazy in the corners that it feels like it wants to flip over.

The only good thing about this car is that the ride is halfway decent for a small car.

I absolutly love how it is hit or miss whether or not you will actually be able to fill the tank. And when you try to squeeze extra in, like you would on any other car, it shoots right back out. LAME

The 48mpg in the city is a joke. The only way you can get 48mpg in the city is if you accelerate so slow there is a line of cars behind you that is a mile long. Effectively you are making traffic worse, and forcing these other cars to burn more gas that polutes the environment that you are trying to save.

Want to do a price comparison?
2008 Dodge Caliber SE, 2.0L 4 cyl, CVT, no options: ~$16,000
29mpg Hwy

2008 Toyota Prius, you know all the specs: ~$22,000
45mpg Hwy

20,000 miles/year

Caliber uses: 690 gallons
Prius uses: 445 gallons
Difference: 245 gallons per year

$4.10/gallon

Total cost savings per year: $1005

It will take 6 years to pay back the cost difference of the Prius. I bet most people don't even drive 20,000 miles per year, so the number of years for pay back only goes up. If you don't drive the Prius for 6 years, you will lose money. Add on to that that the Prius is so damn small in the drivers area that a 6' tall person can't comfortably fit.

Final Tally
Comfort: Caliber
Fuel Economy: Prius
Power: Caliber
Cargo space: Caliber
Price: Caliber

Looks like the Caliber wins. Caliber >>> Prius

In other words, the Prius is a joke. Thank you Toyota for building a car that will only fit the smallest of Americans.

Edit: looking over another thread, a good point was brought up. Good Luck getting a Prius for MSRP. MSRP + $3000-$6000, that would be like buying a used Geo Metro for $15,000

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:41 pm

One more little thing, with gas being right around $2.00 it will take that much longer to pay back the cost difference.

cbjones26 · Post by **cbjones26** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:41 pm

you got ip ban for saying that wtf!! i guess the truth hurts!

Post by **jonnymopar** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:51 pm

Straight from a Prius driver. Thanks Frank! You da man!

Post by **racer12306** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:52 pm

There were some other things that were said.

I posted quite a few times in the same thread. Plus there was a thread about someone wanting to Autox a Prius, I'll let you guess how much fun I had with that

ZeroChad · Post by **ZeroChad** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:15 pm

Has anyone ever converted a hybrid to run e85? You can't completely knock hybrids. Regenerative braking is an amazing technology. There are people out there that get 60+ MPG in the prius too. (basic hypermiling, not the retarded stuff).

The thing that I hate about the Prius, is that people think it was the first hybrid. What about the Honda Insight? That thing got 61City 70Highway. It even had rear wheel covers for better aerodynamics.

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:14 am

I'm calling bs on 36mpg....(no offense to op)

Post by **racer12306** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:45 am

I can get 40mpg in my neon on a highway trip

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:07 am

My 98 got 45 MPG when I drove to pittsburgh, and 40 coming back. I was getting 37-38 mpg going through the city, and then onto the highway for a little while. Of course, this was before I did the head swap, and the cam. That was even before I did the long tube header. All I had was an intake, a catback exhaust, a mopar computer, and 195/60/14 tires pumped up to 40 PSI cold. Now, I would estimate it's getting around 30MPG, but I haven't put a full tank into it, or driven it like a sane person since. Right now my 05 is getting 32 mpg daily, with a mix of highway and city driving. I think if I didn't have to go 70+ on the highway I could do better daily.

Now, for a hybrid, my dad was saying this back in 1990, when he was driving his Hyundai Excel.

Imagine this: A diesel motor in a hybrid. Have it setup that most of the time, the diesel motor is operating as a generator to charge the batteries. It would get AMAZING gas mileage since it wouldn't actually be driving the car all the time, and could still turn off every now and then. If you have to romp on it, it could kick on to help move the car, electric motors make insane/instant torque, and coupled with a diesel motor that makes insane torque, the thing would really scoot. On top of that, you could use bio-diesel in the diesel engine. I think it would really be the best of both worlds, why use the less efficient gas engine if you're trying to get great gas mileage?

I would love to run E85 if my 98 coupe, unfortunately, the closest E85 station (that is open to the public) is in Annapolis, about 45 mins to an hour away. That's not a bad drive, but I'm never in Annapolis, it wouldn't make sense for me to drive further away from work/home to just go get fuel. There is an E85 station in Baltimore, but it is for government vehicles only.

Shoot, if someone would offer a diesel converstion kit for the car, I would be up for it. It would have to be a drop in and go kit, but I would be on it. I can get emissions exemption in MD if I swap to diesel.

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:56 pm

1st gen I can believe.

2nd gen...not at all. Especially those claiming to get it going over 60 mph.

I'm not saying it can't shell out some decent numbers but those claims are outrageous

Post by **racer12306** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:59 pm

Not outrageous at all. I've got >38mpg on 4 or 5 trips.

I just drive, at or 5-10 above the speed limit. You don't have to believe it but it is true.

38-40 isn't that much of a stretch. The manual neons are EPA rated at 36mpg on the highway.

INVUJerry · Post by **INVUJerry** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:00 pm

When my 05 was new (10K miles) I drove to South Carolina from MD. I drove at 85 most of the trip, and averaged 36 MPG. If I had driven at 75, or 65 I would have got amazing gas mileage.

bone-yard-racing · Post by **bone-yard-racing** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:01 pm

Frank can we see the rest of the prius thread? Oh and I had a good laugh over the "I want a prius track car" "If I take everything off of it but the prius badge will it be fast?" thread.
I have the perfect cars to save the world from itself
Mini Cooper S, horriable milage but you so wont care oh and its a great conversation starter with the ladies
Honda CRX HF, 40+mpg CITY and they cost about $5, way way faster than a prius too.

Post by **jonnymopar** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:46 pm

Adionik, do you have an automatic? If you do, that might have something to do with why you haven't seen that kind of gas mileage with a 2gn. I've got my 2003 with the 5-speed and both years driving 390 miles to the Chrysler Nationals, I got upwards of 37mpg. Nearly all highway, cruising at 80mph average.

jake_tim · Post by **jake_tim** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:08 pm

From what I hear, if we can utilize nitrogen fixing bacteria to make energy for transportational usage, it would be amazing.

This is due to Molecular nitrogen's enthalpy of combustion being very high. Those Chemistry major's should know what I am talking about. The technology for this is possibly decades away though.

/rant.

Mat00ES · Post by **Mat00ES** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:40 am

I pulled 31 highway, average 80-85.

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:52 am

jonnymopar wrote:Adionik, do you have an automatic? If you do, that might have something to do with why you haven't seen that kind of gas mileage with a 2gn. I've got my 2003 with the 5-speed and both years driving 390 miles to the Chrysler Nationals, I got upwards of 37mpg. Nearly all highway, cruising at 80mph average.

Yes sir.

My neon is usually in tip top shape maintenance wise.

Only thing is I typically run wide 17" tires...so that's probably robbing my MPG's. Hell the ones on my SRT aren't as wide as my neons. (But they have tons more tread)

Post by **racer12306** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:19 am

The 17's what hurts you more.