Bush War Adviser Says Draft Worth a Look

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Bush War Adviser Says Draft Worth a Look

Post by JRM » Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:41 pm

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... d=rss.news
(08-10) 16:06 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --

Frequent tours for U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan have stressed the all-volunteer force and made it worth considering a return to a military draft, President Bush's new war adviser said Friday.

"I think it makes sense to certainly consider it," Army Lt. Gen. Douglas Lute said in an interview with National Public Radio's "All Things Considered."

"And I can tell you, this has always been an option on the table. But ultimately, this is a policy matter between meeting the demands for the nation's security by one means or another," Lute added in his first interview since he was confirmed by the Senate in June.

President Nixon abolished the draft in 1973. Restoring it, Lute said, would be a "major policy shift" and Bush has made it clear that he doesn't think it's necessary.

"The president's position is that the all volunteer military meets the needs of the country and there is no discussion of a draft. General Lute made that point as well," National Security Council spokesman Gordon Johndroe said.

In the interview, Lute also said that "Today, the current means of the all-volunteer force is serving us exceptionally well."

Still, he said the repeated deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan affect not only the troops but their families, who can influence whether a service member decides to stay in the military.

"There's both a personal dimension of this, where this kind of stress plays out across dinner tables and in living room conversations within these families," he said. "And ultimately, the health of the all-volunteer force is going to rest on those sorts of personal family decisions."

The military conducted a draft during the Civil War and both world wars and between 1948 and 1973. The Selective Service System, re-established in 1980, maintains a registry of 18-year-old men.

Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., has called for reinstating the draft as a way to end the Iraq war.

Bush picked Lute in mid-May as a deputy national security adviser with responsibility for ensuring efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan are coordinated with policymakers in Washington. Lute, an active-duty general, was chosen after several retired generals turned down the job.
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Post by 2003silverneonsxt » Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:03 pm

draft or no draft..i will never join..throw my butt in jail..i dont care
hmmmmm
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Post by jrumann59 » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:58 pm

2003silverneonsxt wrote:draft or no draft..i will never join..throw my butt in jail..i dont care
You say this as if you would have a choice. It is also pretty cowardly. But I guess that is why we have people in the military so you can make that choice.
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Post by aperson » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:03 pm

I'm boned if this happens, I'm in pretty good shape, maybe I should go to college now, if not at least maybe my computer skills will help me stay off the front lines.
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Post by Cbussilver01es » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:20 pm

they have been talkin about this for the longest time.. I personally dont think that its gonna happen. My dad is retired army, and he was just running off some number to me sayin that the cost of training new recruits is already high and the avg soilders training takes 6+ months. And since the military is all about "precision", think how long and how much money it would cost if they were to implement a military draft. I would be a HUGE blow to the economy if there was a draft. [/rant] :rockon:
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Post by jrumann59 » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:44 pm

Cbussilver01es wrote:they have been talkin about this for the longest time.. I personally dont think that its gonna happen. My dad is retired army, and he was just running off some number to me sayin that the cost of training new recruits is already high and the avg soilders training takes 6+ months. And since the military is all about "precision", think how long and how much money it would cost if they were to implement a military draft. I would be a HUGE blow to the economy if there was a draft. [/rant] :rockon:
Pretty much everyone of reasonable health and of draft age would be done but 6 months is a long time for training. When I was in 2 months for basic infantry training and about 2 months for specialized MOS training. I was in the service as an MP in 1997
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Post by anomalous0 » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:51 pm

If I remember though, they select 18 year olds first, then 19 year olds, then 20 and 21, though it might be 19,18,20,21.
So most of us would not have to worry if it gets reinstated, since most of us would be in the clear by the time it happened, and nothing short of a world war would require more young men than would fall into those age ranges.
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Post by jrumann59 » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:17 pm

anomalous0 wrote:If I remember though, they select 18 year olds first, then 19 year olds, then 20 and 21, though it might be 19,18,20,21.
So most of us would not have to worry if it gets reinstated, since most of us would be in the clear by the time it happened, and nothing short of a world war would require more young men than would fall into those age ranges.
I thought it was a raffle like drawing but now that women are allowed in the military it could get very interesting.
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Post by Haganracing » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:06 am

anomalous0 wrote:If I remember though, they select 18 year olds first, then 19 year olds, then 20 and 21, though it might be 19,18,20,21.
I just turned 18 this past April. I doubt they will take me as i have asthma and a heart problem. If they do pick me, im willing to go over and fight for this country and our freedom.

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Post by lambostealth » Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:04 am

You're nixed if you even say you have asthma.....
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Post by Midnight_Rider » Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:05 am

jrumann59 wrote:
2003silverneonsxt wrote:draft or no draft..i will never join..throw my butt in jail..i dont care
You say this as if you would have a choice. It is also pretty cowardly. But I guess that is why we have people in the military so you can make that choice.
I don't think that it is cowardly at all if you are a conscientious objector. Sticking to your moral values and/or beliefs is admirable, especially if you might have to do jail time for it. This is what would have happened to me if Nixon hadn't stopped the draft during the Vietnam War.
jrumann59 wrote:I thought it was a raffle like drawing but now that women are allowed in the military it could get very interesting.
Women have never had to sign up for Selective Service so I doubt that they would be drafted.
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Post by bad04srt » Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:13 am

i have absouletly no problem joining the service and in fact it was my plan all through high school but i decided to finish college first and then if i still wanted to join i would be able to join as an officer


however, if i WAS in the service i would not want a draft.....i would feel much safer knowing the guy watching my back is there of his own free will and wont run off once the lights go out.....


theres no need for a draft and i think a much better (and ultimately cheaper) plan would be to raise miltary enlistment bonuses, pay, benefits, and college education......any service member can tell you they dont get half the shit they were promised at enlistment, especially not an education they can use in the business world so i think an actual college degree would significantly increase enlistment numbers
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Post by anomalous0 » Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:11 am

If someone took a war onto our soil, and I mean real war, if we were being invaded, I'd sign up right now.
But as it is, Americans are more likely to die by being struck by lightning than from terrorism. Other countries deal with much more of it without curtailing civil rights or sending people to fight a war that, according to many intelligence experts, breeds terrorism instead of reducing it.
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Post by Midnight_Rider » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:17 am

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Post by ChrisRT » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:10 pm

2003silverneonsxt wrote:draft or no draft..i will never join..throw my butt in jail..i dont care
lol, why don't you go to Canada then? Want all the greatness of America but don't want to help keep it? :thumbup:

Not like you really have much choice in the matter, you'll either go, or you'll go to another country, its as simple as that. If they can find you they're not going to throw you in the klink until after the war.

*EDIT* - I should say, I welcome the draft. I've thought about taking jobs that place me in Iraq for around 6 months at a time. Hey, the first 50k is tax free, and I don't have to pay housing expenses!
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Post by Cbussilver01es » Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:08 pm

ChrisRT wrote:lol, why don't you go to Canada then? Want all the greatness of America but don't want to help keep it?
Hell with the health care system that canada has I would consider goin up there.....well at least just for the health care. Its sad that the United States being basically the richest country in world has the one of the shittiest healthcare systems in the world.. :beatstick: :banghead:
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Post by KrackstaR » Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:31 pm

lambostealth wrote:You're nixed if you even say you have asthma.....
yeah i have asthma, im fat ,im my dads only son, and im flat footed. So i dont think they would want me. :)

As far as fighting i agree as to what was said above, ill fight a war to protect home (usa), but i refuse to fight a war for just shyts and giggles.
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Post by jrumann59 » Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:38 pm

Cbussilver01es wrote:
ChrisRT wrote:lol, why don't you go to Canada then? Want all the greatness of America but don't want to help keep it?
Hell with the health care system that canada has I would consider goin up there.....well at least just for the health care. Its sad that the United States being basically the richest country in world has the one of the shittiest healthcare systems in the world.. :beatstick: :banghead:
Actually their health care system is more of an urban legend. And most of the countries that have better health care a borderline socialist countries or they require their citizens to get secondary insurance to cover stuff the government won't. I ask how much in taxes is too much. Right now I pay 30%ish for all the social programs hiliary and barack want to implement I will be paying close to 40%+ and me and my wife do not make 6 figures combined.


Gramps if everyone followed their morals this country would not have been founded. You have every right to object but to leave and have someone else die in your place is cowardly. I have talked to a lot of Vietnam vets and many are more pissed off that they lost buddies because of scumbags like clinton dodged the draft and went to canada. Object all you want but show who you really are and go when you are called upon. That is a true hero and a person of high moral constitution.
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Post by INVUJerry » Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:43 pm

If I could be drafted, I would go. But I've had asthma problems since I was a baby, I have ligatosis in both of my shoulders and wrist, and I'm extremely flat footed.


And ChrisRT, the first $80k is tax free in Iraq.
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Post by anomalous0 » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:05 pm

wow, this is turning into one of those divisive political threads like the 12 page healthcare thread on the other .org
It's a fun read
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Post by Canada » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:23 pm

ChrisRT wrote:lol, why don't you go to Canada then? Want all the greatness of America but don't want to help keep it? :thumbup:
Excuse me? Canada currently has 1000's of our Men and Women over there shoulder to shoulder with other nations, including the USA, protecting both our own, and helping you fight for your freedom. We are loosing people just like your own nation is, not nearly as many obviously, as we don't have as many troops over there.

But to make a comment like that, is ignorant and uncalled for. :roll:
jrumann59 wrote:Actually their health care system is more of an urban legend.
I just want to kind of correct this one, but I don't know what you consider fact and what you consider urban legend, but between my gov't sponsered healthcare, and the private coverage I receive FREE through my employer, I don't pay for a thing. That includes, checkups, medications, dental, hearing tests and aids, eye exams, etc...

It may not be all that great in some people's eyes, but considering the freedom we enjoy here, its pretty darn good. :thumbup:

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Post by Bella Lugrossi » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:46 pm

As a mother, wife, and sister it's really hard to not want to pack them up and get them out. It's something I really hope to never worry about. I mean my son is the only one left to carry on the family name so unless he makes that decision for himself, I don't need to worry. As for my husband going, he was a marine when I met him so I accept that. And my brother is also the last to carry on the family name. Just remember, there's a thin line between being a hero and being a memory. ;)
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Post by KrackstaR » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:28 pm

Bella Lugrossi wrote: there's a thin line between being a hero and being a memory. ;)
woot wooot my first sig quote. :rockon:
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Post by ChrisRT » Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:39 pm

Canada wrote: Excuse me? Canada currently has 1000's of our Men and Women over there shoulder to shoulder with other nations, including the USA, protecting both our own, and helping you fight for your freedom. We are loosing people just like your own nation is, not nearly as many obviously, as we don't have as many troops over there.

But to make a comment like that, is ignorant and uncalled for. :roll:
It wasn't meant for you to take it as a derogatory statement, if it came of that way, I'm sorry.

What I meant by it was, thats what a lot of "draft dodgers" did during the draft times. They went to Canada for shelter.

My boss and several co-workers got that infamous piece of paper.. "Your friends and neighbors have selected you...."

Again, if it offended you, I'm sorry. I like Canada, its a beautiful country. The women aren't to bad either. :rockon:
invujerry wrote:And ChrisRT, the first $80k is tax free in Iraq.
Well now, I think my application just found its way to a certain gubberment facility.
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Post by jrumann59 » Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:51 pm

Canada wrote:
jrumann59 wrote:Actually their health care system is more of an urban legend.
I just want to kind of correct this one, but I don't know what you consider fact and what you consider urban legend, but between my gov't sponsered healthcare, and the private coverage I receive FREE through my employer, I don't pay for a thing. That includes, checkups, medications, dental, hearing tests and aids, eye exams, etc...

It may not be all that great in some people's eyes, but considering the freedom we enjoy here, its pretty darn good. :thumbup:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/ ... cmp=EM8705
http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_c ... hcare.html
http://www.nationalcenter.org/2007/07/c ... sonal.html



From these articles your health care rocks :roll: only if you are of good health and all you need is decongestant. If you need something important you are SOL


So everyone in Canada gets this free health care from the gov't and paid in full by the employer secondary insurance. Please tell me how much in taxes you all pay, last I heard the reason why so many NBA players want out of the last Canadian team is the income tax is extremely high even on non residents.


So its a thin line between a memory and hero. I wish you were there with me the day of 9/11 at the Pentagon as I was trying to get people out of the building, when I say a guy I knew laying on the ground covered in jet fuel and almost burned beyond recognition. How I was there for 18-20 hours a day for like week trying to get the network infrastructure patched back together and still finding unidentifiable body parts in areas that were nor than 2 feet from where the plane tore a section out and all you saw was carnage. While I agree if you want to object sure go for it but to dodge any draft will be a disgrace to your country because while you may afford to send your family to Canada someone else can't and you might as well go to the next person in line and put a bullet in his head right before you hop border into Canada.
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Post by Midnight_Rider » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:05 am

KrackstaR wrote:As far as fighting i agree as to what was said above, ill fight a war to protect home (usa), but i refuse to fight a war for just s**** and giggles.
Make that Bush's s**** and giggles. :roll:
jrumann59 wrote:Gramps if everyone followed their morals this country would not have been founded. You have every right to object but to leave and have someone else die in your place is cowardly.
jrumann59 wrote:Object all you want but show who you really are and go when you are called upon. That is a true hero and a person of high moral constitution.
Emphasis added to above quotes is mine.
If you were referring to me, who said anything about leaving and going to Canada? I would have served my time assigned to helping out in a hospital or in prison, not runing to another country. A foreign invader attempting to hurt my family on US soil is one thing but there is no way that I would consider violating "Thou shalt not kill" in something that is nothing more than a battle over political idiologies (or, in this case, oil).
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Post by jrumann59 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:31 am

Midnight_Rider wrote:
If you were referring to me, who said anything about leaving and going to Canada? I would have served my time assigned to helping out in a hospital or in prison, not runing to another country. A foreign invader attempting to hurt my family on US soil is one thing but there is no way that I would consider violating "Thou shalt not kill" in something that is nothing more than a battle over political idiologies (or, in this case, oil).

Following your logic WWI would have been lost and WWII would never had happened for us. I love how the left said we are over there for oil, show me, the "Anti-War" movement use two arguments one is the war is for oil, when under Saddam oil was coming out and going to the UN for "food" and "medical" supplies. Right now none of their oil is coming out and after the first Gulf War they had limited production once all "hostilities" ended so them not putting oil into the market right now is easily absorbed by the other nations but ever since the war started gas prices have gone up not down so we aren't getting oil. Foreign invader this country hasn't seen a foreign invader since the Alamo, so I guess when you don't agree with the president or policy we should follow the liberal left. I know many want to pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq and go into Darfur, go from one so called civil war, to a real civil war. Killing people in other countries for warm and fuzzy feelings is just as bad as for anything else.
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Post by Midnight_Rider » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:37 am

jrumann59 wrote:Foreign invader this country hasn't seen a foreign invader since the Alamo...
I'm not sure about WWI, but the US was attacked by Japan at Pearl Harbor in WWII. This is quite unlike our current situation with Iraq.

All I know is that Jesus said that His Kingdom isn't of this world so I'm more concerned about what I need to do for His government rather than those set up by men.
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Post by neonpla » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:51 am

if your not willing to fight for our country, then get out, simple as that canada has plenty of room so does mexico go live with them because i dont want to die for you.

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