Bush War Adviser Says Draft Worth a Look

Cbussilver01es · Post by **Cbussilver01es** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:29 pm

See I support our troops, like I said b4, I have about 12 close friends that I went to school with that are over there, I dont disagree with what THEY are doing, bc all the are doing is following orders. Sorry but when the word mission accomplished has been said, usually that means the job is done, Iraq is not our country to rebuild, their govt, needs to step up to the plate and say "enough is enough! too many of our ppl are dying" IMO the Islamic militants over there are kind of like the kkk and other hate groups here meaning that by saying back in the day the klan was 100,000 plus strong and now its down to a few thousand nationwide. All Im sayin is that the kkk still exists, the never fully went away, because they still have their racist beliefs. Same as the militants over there, you can kill them and kill them but they never fully go away, because of the messed up stuff they believe in, and thats why soo many innocent iraqis and u.s soldiers are dying. [/rant#2]

ChrisRT · Post by **ChrisRT** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:18 pm

Midnight_Rider wrote:
jrumann59 wrote:Foreign invader this country hasn't seen a foreign invader since the Alamo...
I'm not sure about WWI, but the US was attacked by Japan at Pearl Harbor in WWII. This is quite unlike our current situation with Iraq.

All I know is that Jesus said that His Kingdom isn't of this world so I'm more concerned about what I need to do for His government rather than those set up by men.

FYI: Jesus doesn't have a goverment.

He has followers.

jrumann59 · Post by **jrumann59** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:35 pm

Midnight_Rider wrote:
jrumann59 wrote:Foreign invader this country hasn't seen a foreign invader since the Alamo...
I'm not sure about WWI, but the US was attacked by Japan at Pearl Harbor in WWII. This is quite unlike our current situation with Iraq.

All I know is that Jesus said that His Kingdom isn't of this world so I'm more concerned about what I need to do for His government rather than those set up by men.

My point being WWII would never had happened if we kept our nose out of WWI, we might even be speaking German for it.

Well since you said that lets strap ourselves with TNT and take out the nearest mall since nothing here really matters.

Cbussilver01es wrote:See I support our troops, like I said b4, I have about 12 close friends that I went to school with that are over there, I dont disagree with what THEY are doing, bc all the are doing is following orders. Sorry but when the word mission accomplished has been said, usually that means the job is done, Iraq is not our country to rebuild, their govt, needs to step up to the plate and say "enough is enough! too many of our ppl are dying" IMO the Islamic militants over there are kind of like the kkk and other hate groups here meaning that by saying back in the day the klan was 100,000 plus strong and now its down to a few thousand nationwide. All Im sayin is that the kkk still exists, the never fully went away, because they still have their racist beliefs. Same as the militants over there, you can kill them and kill them but they never fully go away, because of the messed up stuff they believe in, and thats why soo many innocent iraqis and u.s soldiers are dying. [/rant#2]

KKK may still exist but they know that if they pulled any of their old school crap they would be dealt with before the court. Over there the majority A) doesn't care, B) agree with the terrorists, C) or are terrified themselves of the terrorists, either way they can't keep the terrorists in line like how society here has kept groups like the KKK, Black Panthers, Nation of Islam in line.

Adionik · Post by **Adionik** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:42 pm

i have asthma...they wouldnt take me when i tried to join two weeks before i graduated from high school

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Cbussilver01es · Post by **Cbussilver01es** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:58 pm

jrumann59 wrote:. Over there the majority A) doesn't care, B) agree with the terrorists, C) or are terrified themselves of the terrorists, either way they can't keep the terrorists in line like how society here has kept groups like the KKK, Black Panthers, Nation of Islam in line.

Exactly, until somethin can be done in that country about them there's gonna be violence over there troops or no troops IMO.

jrumann59 · Post by **jrumann59** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:37 pm

Adionik wrote:i have asthma...they wouldnt take me when i tried to join two weeks before i graduated from high school

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Remember one thing if this were Vietnam like so many want it to be you would be turned down until they really needed bodies. They have done abbreviated trainings, basically how to shoot, dress a wound and how to dig a trench.

Chibits12 · Post by **Chibits12** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:16 pm

Some people serving in the military may not agree with the war. But they've sworn their very life to protect this country, no matter what.

It is a matter of duty and honor of serving for one's country, which is why many young men and women are willing to die for it, no matter who the president is.

Which is also why I've been thinking about the Navy; hopefully go to officer training.

Midnight_Rider · Post by **Midnight_Rider** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:10 am

ChrisRT wrote:FYI: Jesus doesn't have a goverment.

He has followers.

I think that His 1,000 year reign at the right hand of God pretty much constitutes a government. I won't comment on this any further since it is getting way off-topic.

anomalous0 · Post by **anomalous0** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:20 am

What makes this country great? Our freedoms. Both our positive and negative liberties, freedoms to and freedoms from. I refuse to fight for an administration that is doing its best to get rid of those freedoms, especially one of the most basic, the right of habeus corpus.
Why was it a good thing we got involved in WW2? Because if we hadn't, the nazis probably would have taken over the whole world, and we would have lost most of our freedoms. WW1 is not a good example, it was a land war that had blown up because of all the right ingredients. The kaiser had no Napoleonic visions of world domination.
He just wanted a bigger piece of the pie and couldn't afford to back down once his fingers were in the cookie jar. Wow, mixed metaphors are awesome, especially when they deal with food.

Although global jihad might be a dream for some militant extremists, it's not likely to happen. It's not as if Saddam Hussein would have conquered the entire middle east and then the rest of the world if we didn't take him out. Yes, he needed to be dealt with. But we should have had a better plan. Or a plan in the first place. And we should not have been lied to about why he needed to be dealt with. The real war against terror is an ideological one, and heroes die young, leaving cowardly assholes behind to create policy.

ChrisRT · Post by **ChrisRT** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:09 am

Midnight_Rider wrote:
ChrisRT wrote:FYI: Jesus doesn't have a goverment.

He has followers.
I think that His 1,000 year reign at the right hand of God pretty much constitutes a government. I won't comment on this any further since it is getting way off-topic.

So you're saying he's a dictator with a higher boss?

jrumann59 · Post by **jrumann59** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:22 am

anomalous0 wrote:What makes this country great? Our freedoms. Both our positive and negative liberties, freedoms to and freedoms from. I refuse to fight for an administration that is doing its best to get rid of those freedoms, especially one of the most basic, the right of habeus corpus.
Why was it a good thing we got involved in WW2? Because if we hadn't, the nazis probably would have taken over the whole world, and we would have lost most of our freedoms. WW1 is not a good example, it was a land war that had blown up because of all the right ingredients. The kaiser had no Napoleonic visions of world domination.
He just wanted a bigger piece of the pie and couldn't afford to back down once his fingers were in the cookie jar. Wow, mixed metaphors are awesome, especially when they deal with food.

Although global jihad might be a dream for some militant extremists, it's not likely to happen. It's not as if Saddam Hussein would have conquered the entire middle east and then the rest of the world if we didn't take him out. Yes, he needed to be dealt with. But we should have had a better plan. Or a plan in the first place. And we should not have been lied to about why he needed to be dealt with. The real war against terror is an ideological one, and heroes die young, leaving cowardly assholes behind to create policy.

My example was if we just stay at home and keep our noses out of others affairs WWI would have been the only WW in the 20th century because Germany would have won and most likely we would be speaking german.

As for Islam have you checked lately it is the fastest growing religion in the world and since it has a silent majority that lets the jihadists run free and that is scary, and even scarier is the fact that political correctness has helped them spread like weeds. Blame big bad bush, 1 person, for trying to suspend habeus corpus when it will require what 75% of congress to do so. Remember the difference between the republicans and democrats is republicans are arrogant and think you don't know and do it in front of you, democrats know you know and do it behind your back while stroking you off.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:25 pm

I have one point to make in this whole argument, and that is this ---

I have a friend who is iranian and only been in america for 2 years. he left his country because they require you to join at the age of 18 and you have to serve for 2 years, after tht, you can be called up at any time to serve during war.

He left because of this, and his family paid a pretty penny to get him and his brother safely out of there to come here and live with their mother. They love their country but hate their gov't. On the otherhand, about 50% of their countryment LOVE the gov't.

In Iraq, it was more like 90% hated their gov't but most love their country. The problem is, they just do not want us there. We freed them from Saddam, so now they say just leave! The sectarian violence is from a small, minority of the population who wants NOONE there but them. They want a fudemental religiuous leader to lead their country and take them into battle against the infedels - us.

After talking for two hours with my friend I came to the conclusion that a draft would not be a good thing for us. Why? Look what it did in Vietnam - separated the coun try worse than it is today because people HAD to go over there and fight, do something they did not want to do, and die. Today's all volunteer military is strong because people WANT to be in the military. My brother joined at the beginning of the war because he wanted to be there, he spent 9 months in Ira and is going back, this time in a submarine

He doesnt care because he knew when he joined what could happen.

I say, keep the military all volunteer or lets get out if we do not have the men to support our fight over there and let the ocuntry destroy itself -- then we can go back and grab hold of all the oil we want

heyitsstock · Post by **heyitsstock** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:37 pm

wait were still at war :eyeroll:

jrumann59 · Post by **jrumann59** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:30 pm

kc2002acr wrote:I have one point to make in this whole argument, and that is this ---

I have a friend who is iranian and only been in america for 2 years. he left his country because they require you to join at the age of 18 and you have to serve for 2 years, after tht, you can be called up at any time to serve during war.

He left because of this, and his family paid a pretty penny to get him and his brother safely out of there to come here and live with their mother. They love their country but hate their gov't. On the otherhand, about 50% of their countryment LOVE the gov't.

In Iraq, it was more like 90% hated their gov't but most love their country. The problem is, they just do not want us there. We freed them from Saddam, so now they say just leave! The sectarian violence is from a small, minority of the population who wants NOONE there but them. They want a fudemental religiuous leader to lead their country and take them into battle against the infedels - us.

After talking for two hours with my friend I came to the conclusion that a draft would not be a good thing for us. Why? Look what it did in Vietnam - separated the coun try worse than it is today because people HAD to go over there and fight, do something they did not want to do, and die. Today's all volunteer military is strong because people WANT to be in the military. My brother joined at the beginning of the war because he wanted to be there, he spent 9 months in Ira and is going back, this time in a submarine He doesnt care because he knew when he joined what could happen.

I say, keep the military all volunteer or lets get out if we do not have the men to support our fight over there and let the ocuntry destroy itself -- then we can go back and grab hold of all the oil we want

I agree with you but I think it is cowardly if you live in this country and believe in what is to dodge a draft and leave, and then come back when it is obvious it doesn't matter. Object and go serve or join a branch like the air force or navy instead of the Army. Like I said if you are going to dodge the draft you might as well put a gun to the head to the person that will take your place because they couldn't afford to get to Canada, or can't get into Canada because of some little indiscretion. Object but man up and do what your country wants you to do.

kc2005ptgt · Post by **kc2005ptgt** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:24 pm

oh, I have not heart for draft dodgers, my dad served in vietnam but not in the army or marines, he went navy and did like you said, join before you get drafted. My family has a history of military members dating all the way back to the revolutionary war. So, I personally think an all volunteer army is the way to go, that is why the military is small now, but the best around. Look at iran and n. korea where they have manditory military service -- huge armies, but back in the frickin stone age when compared to us as far as technology. besides, I am too old to be drafted

plus, I got let go in boot camp in the army because of lying on my medical records of stuff that would have kept me out anyway

ChrisRT · Post by **ChrisRT** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:05 am

Technology doesn't mean ish in Guerilla warfare.

jrumann59 · Post by **jrumann59** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:35 am

kc2002acr wrote:oh, I have not heart for draft dodgers, my dad served in vietnam but not in the army or marines, he went navy and did like you said, join before you get drafted. My family has a history of military members dating all the way back to the revolutionary war. So, I personally think an all volunteer army is the way to go, that is why the military is small now, but the best around. Look at iran and n. korea where they have manditory military service -- huge armies, but back in the frickin stone age when compared to us as far as technology. besides, I am too old to be drafted plus, I got let go in boot camp in the army because of lying on my medical records of stuff that would have kept me out anyway

The military is small because after the cold war the gov't felt there wasn't a threat big enough out there to keep Cold War numbers. With the Cold war over the US military went high quality in its recruitment instead of a warm body. It also doesn't help when you have a Democrat president that orders people to RIF'ed on piddly shit and to deny benefits when applicable.