2GN.ORG

aside from what the mayans believe, it is a fact that 2011/2012 will be the high activity point of the suns solar cycle.. aka solar maximus.. and some astrology people are saying that it could be the worst / highest activity in history ... if so, it could potentially knock out satellites and affect everything on earthk

The national debt helps our country. If you want to know how countries become superpowers just look at history. Did any of you know that Amsterdam used to be the economic center of the world? Well it did that by creating a system of debt. The British did the same thing and what happened to them? Superpower. We have always had a national debt and for good reason. It created an economic powerhouse. More spending leads to a higher GDP which makes the rising debt less of the overall total and thus is actually showing a lower percentage. Plus our dept is safe anyway. The US has never defaulted on a payment in over 200 years. Our cedit score would be excellent.

If we went back to a gold standard there would be so little cash going around that it would put America into a depression because no one would have any. Our capital is WAY over how much precious metals we have in our reserves. America went off the gold standard for good reason. If you want to stay a superpower your dollar will never be backed by gold or silver.

History will tell you what you want to know.


As for what I would do...I would go out and get drunk every night until I ran out of cash. The hooker idea is quite good also...

^^^Correct, the debt in relation to GDP is the real metric to watch. It used to be owed to Americans who bought treasury bonds though, not the Chinese.

Esteinmaier has the economy model right. However, I believe this current situation is a structural flaw, not to be solved with a band-aid fix. It has been coming for years(decades in fact), and the $300/$600 rebate in 2001 only delayed the inevitable. This rebate might do it for a while too, but not for as long.

A real recession is coming, based on the rising price of gold, the flow of big-money into the bond market, the falling dollar, and outright terror that middle-class consumers now have in their hearts.
We will have to swallow this bitter pill, and move on in time. The good news, if there is any, is that we will drag China into a full depression, and destroy their economy beacuse it is far less flexible. This will happen mainly because all that chinese crap is stuff nobody really needs. Smart Americans will save thier rebate this time anyway, or pay debt(a form of saving).
Our national savings rate went negative last year, IIRC for the first time in history. The Savings=Investment equation still holds, and we have forced our business' to accept the savings of other nations as the only source of investment dollars. As Americans we used to put money in banks or investments, that in turn was lent to businesses and other Americans, and therefore increased the M2 money supply as this process repeated itself creating jobs and personal wealth in a counter-flow to the consumption cycle. Credit cards reversed this process, now we use Citibanks and China's money and pay them dearly for it. Chinas monetary policies are akin to terrorism in the seriousness of their threat to the US, but will hurt them very soon because they hold too many of our potentially worthless dollars, and base their own currency's value on ours.

Buy American, or go to Hell! Don't buy cheap offshore crap you don't need. Clothing, food, housing, all can be found made in USA, you have to spend a little more on the clothing though.
Pay off debt, & save some money, you may well need it.

pyro wrote:A real recession is coming...

I think that we've been in a recession for several years now but people are just starting to take notice.

pyro wrote:Buy American...! Don't buy cheap offshore crap you don't need. Clothing, food, housing, all can be found made in USA, you have to spend a little more on the clothing though.
Pay off debt, & save some money, you may well need it.

im no economist or history major or anything else, but some of these comments are so out of whack im not sure if we are living in the same country. maybe some people are living with blinders on their eyes, i dont know.

people need to wake up and smell the coffee, see whats really happening in the worldk..

^^ And what is that? I'm dying to know.

We can't have a protectionist economy, we're no communists. That's why the USSR failed. They had lots of money back then but it didn't go anywhere but, well, in their country. So corruption became rampant then bankrupted.

Chibits12 wrote:we're no communists

except that the tennents of the communist handbook have all been implimented in this country

anomalous0 wrote:

kevo wrote:if i survive my my giant crack rock binge, i want to get a gold grill.

I was in houston after hurricane katrina. Sad state of affairs. We need to be educated in money management from an early age.

Idk when the kids and teens wanna grow up and be rappers and pimps instead of doctors and lawyers, and the adults want to buy big ass cars with rims instead of houses or apartments for their familes what do you expect? Sorry to be so blunt but a lot of ppl did all sorts of shit with their FEMA checks.

Yay... $300.00... I guess the government all expects us to spend it, not save it.

"Individuals who pay income taxes would get up to $600, working couples $1,200 and those with children an additional $300 per child under the agreement. Workers who make at least $3,000 but don't pay taxes would get $300 rebates."



pyro said:"This will happen mainly because all that chinese crap is stuff nobody really needs."

Unfourtunately there is way too much that we rely on. There isn't alot of machinery/steel still made here and no one would have shoes to wear.

jT wrote:except that the tennents of the communist handbook have all been implimented in this country

A statement I agree with. . .unfortunately. Blame the liberals, and even the GOP has sold out our freedoms, and taken our money to give to others.

occasional demons wrote:Unfourtunately there is way too much that we rely on. There isn't alot of machinery/steel still made here and no one would have shoes to wear.

You can buy American shoes, if you choose to. The just cost more and last longer, they are usually made of this strange low-tech material called leather.

I has happened (offshore steel, & shoes etc. .)in the last 20-30 years, because of some the things I stated above. It can be undone much quicker, if we have the collective guts to pay non-walmart prices.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/24/ ... index.html

Now, it's $600 individual and $1200 married couple with $300 extra for people with kids up to $1200 extra.

So a married couple with 4 kids would get $2400. I'm not married but have a child so I guess I would get like $900 and the GF would get $600. so $1500 for our "family" since we are not married (not that it matters in this situation, really).

June is about the time they should start showing up in mail boxes. Don't hold your breathe but do start dreaming.

if I get any money im gunna buy a buggy full of liquor.

pyro wrote:Buy American, or go to Hell! Don't buy cheap offshore crap you don't need. Clothing, food, housing, all can be found made in USA, you have to spend a little more on the clothing though.
Pay off debt, & save some money, you may well need it.

pyro wrote: It can be undone much quicker, if we have the collective guts to pay non-walmart prices.

AMEN !!

-Nick

If folks take the cash and purchase imported goods it won't do much for the American economy... but certainly will give a boost to the economy of those countries supplying the imported goods.

When I get extra funds that was not expected it goes directly into savings. In other words, any revenue received above my regular pay.

Ok, I'm being a miserable SOB and not helping the economy.

Cbussilver01es wrote:

anomalous0 wrote:

kevo wrote:if i survive my my giant crack rock binge, i want to get a gold grill.

I was in houston after hurricane katrina. Sad state of affairs. We need to be educated in money management from an early age.

Idk when the kids and teens wanna grow up and be rappers and pimps instead of doctors and lawyers, and the adults want to buy big ass cars with rims instead of houses or apartments for their familes what do you expect? Sorry to be so blunt but a lot of ppl did all sorts of shit with their FEMA checks.

They're still living in my city. It's fucking ridiculous! Our northern city area's rape and crime rate when up like 30% or some shit

Their housing is NICE, and they get good money that can be seen at local Valero's....with 40's

woot i get 1500 then!

I heard late spring we should be getting this check.

It will either go towards a set of hot rims or towards paying my car off.

i'll still take 600 wooo hoooo lol

Paul56 wrote:If folks take the cash and purchase imported goods it won't do much for the American economy... but certainly will give a boost to the economy of those countries supplying the imported goods.

When I get extra funds that was not expected it goes directly into savings. In other words, any revenue received above my regular pay.

Ok, I'm being a miserable SOB and not helping the economy.

Well, you have to keep in mind that ever since the industrial revolution, it's becoming more and more of a world economy. You have China offering to sew our socks for 25 cents and hour, and India offering at 22, Joe's sock company is going to have it done in India, where the new factory opens, and then the workers go on strike until they get 26 cents an hour.

The faster technology moves, the smaller the world gets.

Even if the money is spent on indonesian-made incense holders, it's still boosting the world economy. We won't see as immediate of a jump as if it were spent here and recirculated here quickly, but it will happen. Besides that, you still have americans working to distribute, transport, retail, etc. all the foreign products. So China's still only getting like 5% of the money that the consumer hands the retailer.

why dont they keep there 300 bucks and use that money to find way to bring down the cost of fuel and energy.

I was gonna read everyone's comment's so I could start difusing myths and putting down ignoramous comments, but instead, I just decided to state my opinion.

The economy is on the fritz because of problems in the sub-prime housing market - too many people got loans for houses they couldn't afford nor could they ever pay off... who's fault? The banks... so the fed (mind you they are separate from the government!) to ease off a recession has lowered interest rates to help free up money so banks do not go under...

does anyone actually know what happens when the fed lowers interest rates? Probably not, so just in case: the federal reserve which is the bankers bank (ie: your bank gets loands from it) does usually what is called a "buy operation" and buys up lots of bonds and what not on the open market. Who do they buy them from? The banks!!! Why should the banks sell them, since they make money off them... because they get a great price, the price goes up, the i-rate goes down, and the end result is "more money" free'd up from the fed into the public banks. Now we know how money is made...

So what is wrong with the economy? Well, people went out after 9/11 and bought a bunch of homes and took out loans, and what not - why? because the economy was threatening to fall below the mark that was what caused the great depression of the 30's. To avoid such a fall, the fed once again lowered rates to stimulate the economy, freeing up money to loan to poeple, create jobs lost from the backlash of 9/11, and ensure that we had no recession, let alone a depression.

Then the fed to fight inflation had to raise the interest rate, which they did some 20 odd times over the course of the next 6 years so that the dollar would not loose more of it's value... why? Because everyone had a job, everyone was making money, but that dollar was not buying much. So the end result was job losses, inflation, unemployment, and banks loosing money due to people having to forfeit their bank loans.

Now, we fast forward to today, the market was doing great, we hit not only the record 13000 mark, but even flirted with 14000! The economy was strong, people were buying and selling, jobs were doing good and created every month... but the biggest problem, oil prices increasing, bringing about a "cost shock" which can easily throw the entire economy off. Top it off, we have problems with these banks who practiced bad loaning business. Now, the inflation rate is rising, the i-rate is going down, jobs are being created, but the oil keeps going up and the housing market keeps dropping off.

So it is a double edged sword, lots of stuff going on and lots of options... the democrats want to raise taxes the republicans want to give rebates. The idea is that the taxes would help to cover the costs of war and other issues, but then the end result would be that people would get less money to spend. So maybe the national debt would "go down" but then the other result would be that the people would stop spending and investing causing more problems with the market.

What do we do? Well, the hope is that 190$ billion tied up in taxes paid given back to the people would mean 190$ billion spent into the economy.

I personally will use the money (since I get the marriage amount of 1200) to help get my own debt paid off.

Thank you Mr. Bush!!!

esteinmaier wrote:Besides that, you still have americans working to distribute, transport, retail, etc. all the foreign products.

Yes, but the Americans won't be making nearly as much in salary by passing the foreign-made goods along as they would have if the goods had been manufactured here. We're going to get to the point where all American workers will have to ask "Do you want fries with that?" during the course of their daily jobs. And I'm not being funny here.

$2100, would be nive to catch up on back taxes....

I'll probably buy some stuff...that I need...for my car...again...I'm obsessed!

invujerry wrote:We need to stop printing out fucking money like we are, and go back to gold/silver/tin standards. Money that is backed by nothing (current American Dollar) worth that, nothing. Every dollar you have in your pocked has to be paid back to the Federal Reserve at an interest rate (I don't remember how much), the same people who print the money.

Ron Paul is the ONLY candidate that supports starting a 2nd form of money that is actually backed by gold or silver.

Thats funny there isn't enough precious metals in the world to cover every penny, nickel, or dollar that every American has or will make. Think about the inflation that would occur when gold which is around 800 an ounce doubles and it costs $5 for a loaf of bread. The gold standard was one of the reasons of the great depression, while I am in favor of a partially back currency a complete backing would be impossible and completely detrimental to todays economy. Now instead of wars for "oil" you would have wars for gold.

Paul56 wrote:When I get extra funds that was not expected it goes directly into savings. In other words, any revenue received above my regular pay.

Ok, I'm being a miserable SOB and not helping the economy.

But you are!
Saving = Investment, your dollar in the bank is around 33 cents made available to loan to another American, which raises the M2 money supply. More money is exactly what they are trying to do. Low rates mean jack if there isn't the money to loan.

BTW- jrumann59, Gold is ~$960 Oz, and the record was set in the '80's at around $2400 of todays dollars if it was inflation adjusted. Gold is cheap. The problem I see is that it is more of an industrial metal today, for electronics.

KrackstaR wrote:bring down the cost of fuel and energy

Drill in ANWAR, and offshore of my homestate California. The rigs off of Long Beach are pretty at night, and unnoticeable during the day anyway.

kc2002acr wrote:I personally will use the money (since I get the marriage amount of 1200) to help get my own debt paid off.

Servicing debt (prior consumption) is a form of saving. Bravo. I am doing the same.
In a certain way, any spending that does not coincide with current consumption is saving. Your creditors will now have $1200 more to loan to someone who will spend it, hopefully on durable American made goods, or paid to a service industry worker that will!

Even if it takes some time, we'll get this pot back to a rolling boil sooner or later. Sooner would be nicer, and money that goes offshore is a loss of heat, so too speak.

pyro wrote:

BTW- jrumann59, Gold is ~$960 Oz, and the record was set in the '80's at around $2400 of todays dollars if it was inflation adjusted. Gold is cheap. The problem I see is that it is more of an industrial metal today, for electronics.

I figured it was a little higher but my point being that a precious metal backed currency would cause an almost uncontrollable inflationary event especially if the world decided to lock down its precious metal reserves.