For the hardcore Internet explorer users..

[jake_tim]

Wait, I've missed something, Josh.

I was just saying macs were pricey. They are better than 99% of PCs, I'll admit. I am in no way, shape, or form angry with Apple because their products are expensive. If I -needed- a Mac (for multi-media purposes or what have you), I would probably shell out the extra money for one. But for my purposes, a PC will do fine for what I am willing to pay. I would "like" a 17-inch Macbook Pro, but cant really justify paying $3,000 for one. Maybe one day when I am rich I will .

And yes, I am sooooo angry at Porsche because I can buy a 911turbo, its not like they cost that much to make! j/k.

[heyitsstock]

wow....

...is he really that stubborn...

give a little credit where credit is earned

[Danteneon]

I'm used to shelling out some good money for computers. The last system I built cost me about $1,500 for everything. Granted, if I were to buy a system with the same specs it would run about 2,200-2,500. DIY FTMFW!

[Mr Josh Zombie]

Wait, I've missed something, Josh.

I was just saying macs were pricey. They are better than 99% of PCs, I'll admit. I am in no way, shape, or form angry with Apple because their products are expensive. If I -needed- a Mac (for multi-media purposes or what have you), I would probably shell out the extra money for one. But for my purposes, a PC will do fine for what I am willing to pay. I would "like" a 17-inch Macbook Pro, but cant really justify paying $3,000 for one. Maybe one day when I am rich I will .

And yes, I am sooooo angry at Porsche because I can buy a 911turbo, its not like they cost that much to make! j/k.

cost thing wasn't aimed at you in anyway. it's a point i wanted to make in my first post, but forgot

a lot of people still wont buy a mac because of cost. When they compare laptop to laptop, chance are they go with something PC.

if you want to compare OS to OS and have the money, most people go mac.

[GreeNeons03]

or this:

That looks good? That's a damn drink coaster!

Also I don't understand what all the hype about "Mac is so good" "Mac is the best" Mac shit this and Mac shit that, is all about.

Why praise an Operating system that is totally user unfriendly? I try to close a window, THE DAMN WINDOW IS STILL OPEN IN THAT STUPID DOCK! The whole operating system is like a damn window with "file" and all that shit in the corner.

And your screwed when the machine locks up because you pissed it off, because there no interrupt key stroke. And no right click? What the hell is that? How am I supposed to copy or rename a file?

And the OS I used in HS I think was OS9 on the old machines and OS10 on the new ones. And the computer at work has OS10.

However Dell makes most of their own stuff, such as motherboards and power supplies.

wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong. wrong.

wow man. seriously. get off the Dell witch hunt. they do not make their own hardware!!

oh your aunties computer did not work blah blah it had another connector... oh yeah, you mean that 4 pin CPU connector that is practically a standard now!??! yeah no shit you need a special power supply for that because power supplies that do not have that connection, well, they dont have it!!! not too hard to understand that there are different types of power supplies, but when you buy the CORRECT one it will work.... it's not Dell's fault that you dont know what you are buying....

I've got a Dell Optiplex 745 sitting here, so what you are saying is I CAN NOT open this up and change anything because I need to buy a special magic Dell version? YOU ARE NUTS.

That must be a new thing then because every Dell that I have worked on did not have many universal parts.

Show me a PC that looks as good and takes up as little space as an imac.

Done:

I'm surprised you didn't use this as a comparison...



It looks a lot like a Mac design, no?

Shit, I forgot about that one. That's their new touch smart PC.

[heyitsstock]

right click = ctrl + click

i have used a mac for 8+ havent locked up unless i was running large programs that the systems memory could not handle

[fixitmattman]

I can crash windows or OSX. Not hard on either. Neither are perfect, each has their advantages.

I never owned a mac up until a few years ago, and when I did get one it was quite an old powerbook. Just as was said, right click = ctrl + click, and all your alt + commands become cloverleaf + commands. Was awkward at first, but not a hard transition by any means. Probably wouldn't buy one new. They're elegant pieces (durable too), but I don't know about justifying the cost.

My power book is just as upgradable as my new HP. That means both aren't very upgradable - pretty much memory, HD, and PCI slots.

[Mr Josh Zombie]

You'll notice, not ONCE have I said "Mac is the best!"

It's better at things. Get over yourself.

And how the hell am I right clicking *right now then*

their original mice did not have two buttons... there mighty mouse does. well, it'd one button with two touch sensors. i can hook ANY mouse up, and guess what!! right click!! it's even under the "mouse" section in systems preferences.

Oh, and your "ctrl+alt+delete" is "control+apple+esc"

I just don't understand how you can call it user unfriendly. It's not a hard concept! Each program has it's windows. No, clicking "X" does not close the program. You have to "apple+Q" or "file+quit"

I've noticed with you, "DIFFERENT IS -BAD-"

Open up a bit. Just because it's a tad different than windows, does not make it "inferior" or terrible"


fixitmattman is right, both laptops are aren't very upgradable. No laptop really is. Hell, macs generally arn't because they solder everything to the motherboard to save space.



Oh, and that "coaster" is pretty damn powerful in it's own right. Go look at specs and get a PC to fit in such a small case.

[fixitmattman]

Actually, the HP is a desktop. Onboard graphics kinda does that. But it was cheap as hell.

[Kelevra]

Ok, Away from the mac vs pc argument. I am going to make this point AGAINST HP

So, I have a dv6000z laptop (first problem is it's a laptop). Anyway, I play WoW occasionally and the thing locks up every so often (BSODs with NV4_disp.dll infinite loop error) directly related to the video drivers. I research the problem and find no solution as well as run my own diagnostics on hardware AND software, nothing. I contact HP via their online chat. they tell me to run checks for everything under the sun and it all comes up clean. They then tell me to factory restore my computer and see where that takes me. I did and the problem is still there. I contact them via phone and to EVEN help me on the phone I need to buy the $99 extended warranty. and at this point I'm like WTF! I bought it, tech support should be free!! So, I get online again with the chat and they tell me hardware has failed. WRONG, no, it hasn't, the date on the most up to date drivers is Nov 2006! and it only happens with graphic intensive applications.

I also contacted Nvidia about the problem and Nvidia only send them the GPU, not the board and HP mounts it and develops the drivers for the laptops and there was nothing Nvidia can really do.

I've kicked, screamed, threatened and told HP to put out updated drivers because a computer should only become obsolete due to hardware, not software (IE drivers).

This is my warning now. DO NOT BUY HP LAPTOPS EVER!! they don't update ANYTHING on them and you will end up screwed. Their customer service blows. Their attitude towards you is very condescending to the point they think you know nothing and can be suckered into their sales pitches. and their willingness to update drivers/software is nonexistent.

to add more salt to the wounds... "It's a laptop, it's not meant for gaming." and yet... it's classified as an 'entertainment PC' as printed on the case and advertised. last time I checked... Games were a form of entertainment, are they not?

/rant

[racer12306]

um, wow.



My fiance JUST started using a Mac Book. She got a county issued laptop because they put a SMART Board in her classroom, which on a side note is FUCKING AWESOME. She learned that to "right click" you push control and click in the first little class about the SMART Board. Also, you don't even have to use a Mac Mouse. Go grab a cheap 2 button (or one with a click wheel) and BAM right clicking with ease.

Another thing I remember is there is a force quit button sequence that, imo, worked better than Ctrl-Alt-Del. That is iirc. Since I've been in college and am now starting my own life I haven't had access to a Mac.

Computers that my fiance or I have owned/used:
Dell Dimension 2300 - XP, personal computer, Built Sept 2003, just full of crap because I've been too lazy to clean it out, on it right now actually

Dell Inspiron 5100 - XP, personal computer, Built july or august 2003, ran great up until earlier this year when something in the MB went so you can't unplug it or maybe its just a bad battery, i don't know her mom uses it on a regular basis though. only problem is i was stupid when I spec'd it out and didn't put enough RAM in it.

Dell Inspiron 1100 - Dad bought it referbished a few years ago, something happened earlier this year, i don't know what, but I don't care

Dell Inspiron 1710 - (or something like that, yes i'm too lazy to run downstairs and see) personal computer, great computer, full keyboard, 17" screen, vista home premium, coming up on a year of ownership

HP TX1000 - work computer, vista business, tablet screen, coming up on a year of use. gets hot as a sumbitch, feels like i would fry my giblets if i actually used it on my lap. i think most of the problems with this computer are the incompatability of the network and network devices with vista. i am always having to restart my print spooler, which bugs the shit out of me.


Now my Mom has ALWAYS used Macs. I seem to remember an Apple II WAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY back when, then a Quadra, then a G3 (big mistake, she got it at precisely the wrong time to buy a G3 live and learn) and then a G5. I don't think she had a G4, think she skipped that. She has always done graphic design for her career and had a personal business for a while. I really learned to love the Mac in that time. Graphic layout is AMAZING, even for the simple shit like history reports. With the exception of the G3 the only problem my Mom ever had with her Macs is when she let someone that didn't know what he was doing fuck with a Mac. He was a PC guy and thats about all I know of the story.

I would love to get a MacBook Pro down the line, but right now in my life I just don't have the extra money for one. Maybe the computer after my next computer will be one.


So what I have learned:
- never heard of a hackintosh or however it's spelled, pretty cool
- GreeNeons makes bad arguements
- That I want a Mac still, but can't afford one


I haven't kept up to date on somethings, but I will listen to any well laid out arguement, beit right or wrong. I think many will agree as to who has the well laid out arguments in this thread.

[racer12306]

I think ^^^ makes sense. If not, meh

[ZeroChad]

I have an hp 9000z. I'm actually on my third mainboard now. The last time it crapped out because my gpu melted. It was still covered under some obscure replacement program. HP's customer service has been outstanding. I would say its as good as apple's but they don't have local Genius Bars.

Kelevra. I would just go to nvidia's website and download a driver from there. Make sure your direct x is up to date as well.

[racer12306]

I forgot to mention.....


My bad for making a comparison and blowing this whole thread WAAAYYYYY OT

[racer12306]

I love goofing around.....

dual quad core 3 ghz processors
32 GB ram
4 TB HD
2 30" cinema displays
video, picture, music editting software
etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc


$26,000

[jT]

http://www.omegadrivers.net/

ati & nvidia drivers.. modified.

use them on my Toshiba laptop with OEM onboard video.. (Toshiba > HP, bitches!!!)

[2005.Neon.SXT]

Wow... I wanted to go to bed about an hour ago, but this shit was getting fucking hilarious after Opi's humongous post

Oh, and just to clarify which "side" I'm on, I am currently [at this very moment] typing on my MacBook that I bought in April of 2007 and have had ZERO problems [yep, this bad boy is a year and eight months old]. I have had protective pieces on my laptop the moment I took it out of the box. Oh, and try and beat this... my laptop survived 7 months with me in Afghanistan. Been through one dust storm [granted I had the bitch put away safe and away from the storm]. This thing has been shoved very uncomfortable in my pack, etc. Nothing wrong with the screen, still starts up, slot-loaded CD/DVD drive still works, can still pump out about 3 hours of Internet time for me, etc. Everything is pristine as if it wasn't on deployment with me

Why praise an Operating system that is totally user unfriendly? I try to close a window, THE DAMN WINDOW IS STILL OPEN IN THAT STUPID DOCK!

This just goes back to what Opi was discussing about how you are so biased and unwilling to learn the basics of Apple's Operating System. If you actually just learned that some programs you actually have to "quit", you'd know that it stays in the dock. I know a bunch of hotkeys and I can move around fast on my MacBook.

And no right click? What the hell is that? How am I supposed to copy or rename a file?

The one thing I absolutely LOVE about Macs is that you can plug a device in and it is immediately detected. No installing with the given CD, no downloading any bullshit... just plain, simple, plug n play. My mouse that I'm using, it's a Logitech with a right click, started working the moment i plugged the USB wireless receiver in... amazing. And yes, you can ctrl+click to right click. Oh, and on Leopard? You can tap with two fingers on the trackpad, and if you have it set in your settings, THAT will act as a right click as well.

Oh, and your "ctrl+alt+delete" is "control+apple+esc"

I'm sorry Opi.. but it's actually "+alt+esc".. no control [it actually says "Command+Option+Escape" in the Force Quit Window].. But back at trying to knock some sense into GreeNeons03, I have never had a problem with Apple's version of "ctrl+alt+del" [which they call "Force Quit"]. You know how sometimes you'll ctrl+alt+del and try and quit a program that's locked up and then it just totally freezes the whole computer? Or it'll take a minute or two.. usually a while to finally quit the application? I've never had a problem with Force Quit. Just like detecting peripherals, the frozen application gets closed immediately.

Anyway, I am kinda bias towards Macs, but I have used both. And yes both have their ups and downs. The funny thing about what GreeNeons03 wrote earlier in this thread about why would you want to install Windows on a Mac, just get a PC and save yourself money [or something of the sort]... Well, I read in a Popular Mechanics Magazine [hopefully some of you know the article I'm talking about, front cover was "PC vs. Mac"] that Windows Vista ran better on the Apple Computers than it did on the PC's. I really don't know how you can counter that... it just makes more sense to buy a Mac

Alright, well I'm done. Kind of random of myself since I usually don't get involved with these arguments, but I really hate when people are so ignorant and don't realize that Macs aren't all that bad. They actually make my life a helluva lot easier. I push one key, and my desktop is there [it'll shove all my windows aside]. Another key with make a "overview" of all my windows that are currently open [sort of like "alt+tab", but it shows mini versions of the windows and you select which]. I don't know, little things here and there that just impress me about OSX Leopard. I do like Windows, just not so much Vista [I'm sorry Opi.. please don't attack me lol].

Anyway, seriously done...

[GreeNeons03]

I've noticed with you, "DIFFERENT IS -BAD-"

I don't see diffrent as bad. I see unusable as bad.

And an "X" should mean you were closing the window, not minimizing it like a "_" means.

Maybe if Macs inteface was easier to use and I could use the same software between the two, for example, I can load Half-Life 2 on my PC and use the same disk to load it on a Mac on OSX, not Boot camp or what ever that "Waste money by using windows on a Mac" software is, then I probably wouldn't be to hard on it.

But untill that day comes, I still say PC>Mac.

[jake_tim]

I've noticed with you, "DIFFERENT IS -BAD-"

I don't see diffrent as bad. I see unusable as bad.

And an "X" should mean you were closing the window, not minimizing it like a "_" means.

Maybe if Macs inteface was easier to use and I could use the same software between the two, for example, I can load Half-Life 2 on my PC and use the same disk to load it on a Mac on OSX, not Boot camp or what ever that "Waste money by using windows on a Mac" software is, then I probably wouldn't be to hard on it.

But untill that day comes, I still say PC>Mac.

Are you serious? Because you sound like an idiot, seriously.

Sorry, had to get that out.

[Mr Josh Zombie]

I give up.

GreenNeons03

I hear-by declare you as a tool. From your posts on politics, to your posts on computers, you are one ignorant person.

Not even got himself can save you now. I think everyone in this thread can agree with me. Wether they like PCs or Macs. You're the only ignorant one to even take the time to have a justified argument.

You = Fail buddy. Good luck to ya.

[GreeNeons03]

That why I hate to argue. I always lose. Oh well, I'll just sit in the corner on my PC laughing at those who think Mac's are actually good for something.

It's a good thing I'm not on a debate team.

[ZeroChad]

Racer- I can't believe you haven't had any hardware problems with those dells.

In my experience, mac hardware is no better than any other (if not worse in some circumstances). My girlfriends family has uses apple products for years. Just from my experience, 3 of their machines have had hard drives die on them. I've only had one hard drive ever die in one of my pcs (7yr), and it wasn't completely dead, it just had corrupted sectors. I guess my point is that the OS/software is the major difference in the machines.

The GF current macbook has these really hard "stops" on the lid. When its close it puts too much pointed pressure on the face of the laptop, causing it to crack along the lip where your palms would rest. She's had it replaced 3 times now

Anyone who think Mac OS is harder to use than a windows machine is on crack. "X" acts similar to an app that would minimize to a tray in windows. Essentially if you use this application frequently, you don't have to waste HDD time to fetch the same data.

[superdan]

ok i voiced my opinion earlier in this thread but since then this has become quite entertaining and a bit of whose opinion and prefernce is better. lol


continue......

[Cabbs]

I'm a PC gamer and build my own computers, so Mac is obviously out for me.

Mac's aren't bad computers, it's just that I don't have a use for them. For me, a Windows machine does what I want it to do, and that is play games. You can't overclock a Mac either

[racer12306]

Actually 'X' does close the window, but GOD FORBID you have to quit a program. Maybe that is why OSx is so stable?


I guess I'm just lucky with stuff. I mean I've never had a problem with computers that people have problems with, my neon is one of the quicker stock sxt's, or maybe I'm just that badass

[racer12306]

So I just my new, calibrated IR thermometer on the power supply and exhaust port of the HP TX1000

Power Supply: 116*F
Exhaust port: 104*F

[Mr Josh Zombie]

Yes, yes you can over-clock macs as well. Only Mac Pros through, because any other machine would cause major heat issues. Cases are so small, they wouldn't be able to handle an increase in temp. How ever, I've over-clocked my mac pro from 2.2ghz to 3.8ghz just fine for 3 months now. No additional cooling or anything required. runs at a steady 95* F

[racer12306]

forgot to mention:


I <3 Opi

[GreeNeons03]

This site (LINK) made me LOL because it's so true. I especially thought the last line was great.

"3,838,695 Mac fans switched back over to Windows, even though Windows is just as shitty."

I will agree that Windos isn't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than any Mac.

[Mr Josh Zombie]

What can I say Frank? I'm just here to educate the un-informed and un-willing to learn. If you want to hate something, at least KNOW something about it. The Mac OS does a LOT of the same things Windows does. It's not even THAT damn hard to program for. Most people are just unwilling to try out a new platform.

I hate Windows because I've been using it for 10 years and it's the most unstable of 3 platforms I've ever used. Also the most pain in the ass to diagnose, but DOES have the largest support. Here's hoping windows 7 doesn't suck.

This site (LINK) made me LOL because it's so true. I especially thought the last line was great.

"3,838,695 Mac fans switched back over to Windows, even though Windows is just as shitty."

I will agree that Windos isn't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than any Mac.

I <3 that website. Some funny shit actually.

You do know that last line, is the amount of page views, right?



Jackass.