chrysler shuts down all production

[bone-yard-racing]

Are you using Jew as an insult? Just curious

using it as a comparison.. but you prove my point .. talk about jew and its automatically got to be an insult... tell me, are you jew?

Jew-ish have at it.

[w0158981]

this has been a huge topic in my university management class.

So i agree that management within the companies is far from great but at the same time, the average wage is extrememly high. Now i understand union's wages are usually higher and i personally am split down the center about unions but thats another topic.

With wages being so high the fixed costs of the vehicles being produced is high once you factor in everything else. Compared to imports which have a much lower fixed costs, so to even make the same profit the mark up on a domestic car would need to be much higher, and if you go with competitive pricing, your profits are much more minimal. Making it extrememlly hard to survive/ compete

So i herd sumthing about letting the companies go under and putting them as a "category 10" bankrupcy, which would then allow the goverment to go in and redevelope the companies. Most likely getting rid of the union or atleast working with the union to lower wages.

Now i'm wondering how the union workers feel? like i understand they want to keep their wages as is, but is it not worth shaving a couple bucks to keep your company and intially your job longer?

I understand we need the big 3 in our economy as they are key players in the economy but i'm not sure if just bailing them out is the way to go, i think the companies require the redeveloping to support this from happening again.

Now not only do i think that an agreement with the union has to be worked, but efficiency within the company needs to be looked at(production lines, management levels, etc) I also think that they need to look at the needs of the consumers when it comes to their products, looking at what people want in a vehicle whether it be bringing back older styles, or developing new ones based.

The whole chrylser listens thing should be a key item being used now to figure out how to get consumers back on their side, and back into chrysler/dodge vehicles.

[jrumann59]

this has been a huge topic in my university management class.

So i agree that management within the companies is far from great but at the same time, the average wage is extrememly high. Now i understand union's wages are usually higher and i personally am split down the center about unions but thats another topic.

With wages being so high the fixed costs of the vehicles being produced is high once you factor in everything else. Compared to imports which have a much lower fixed costs, so to even make the same profit the mark up on a domestic car would need to be much higher, and if you go with competitive pricing, your profits are much more minimal. Making it extrememlly hard to survive/ compete

So i herd sumthing about letting the companies go under and putting them as a "category 10" bankrupcy, which would then allow the goverment to go in and redevelope the companies. Most likely getting rid of the union or atleast working with the union to lower wages.

Now i'm wondering how the union workers feel? like i understand they want to keep their wages as is, but is it not worth shaving a couple bucks to keep your company and intially your job longer?

I understand we need the big 3 in our economy as they are key players in the economy but i'm not sure if just bailing them out is the way to go, i think the companies require the redeveloping to support this from happening again.

Now not only do i think that an agreement with the union has to be worked, but efficiency within the company needs to be looked at(production lines, management levels, etc) I also think that they need to look at the needs of the consumers when it comes to their products, looking at what people want in a vehicle whether it be bringing back older styles, or developing new ones based.

The whole chrylser listens thing should be a key item being used now to figure out how to get consumers back on their side, and back into chrysler/dodge vehicles.

The one thing not mentioned is the Big 3 realizing their margins on their cars were so miniscule because they had to stay price competitive they leveraged their money into financing the vehicles they sold so in other words they figured they could make up the margin difference in when they financed the average car buyer and over the term of the loan they would make back 2-3 times what Toyota and honda were making on a similar car they day of the sale. The problem being when the banks froze credit and made it very difficult to get loans it cut to the bone of the big 3.

[Midnight_Rider]

UAW official: Big 3 pay not higher

Detroit's wages match Japenese rivals in U.S., Indianapolis panel told

By Ted Evanoff, the Indianapolis Star, 12-23-08, pages C1 and C3.

A United Auto Workers official in Indianapolis said Monday (12-22) that base wages in Detroit's auto industry are already in line with pay for workers in most Japanese car plants in the United States.

"I'd contend we're already there today," said Maurice Davison, director of the the UAW's Indianapolis-based Region 3 which represents union members in Indiana and Kentucky.

Davison was refuting claims by Republicans in Congress who say union pay should fall to match salaries paid by Honda and Toyota as a condition for a bailout...

The union will consider concessions in work rules and other cost-cutting measures to help the automakers survive, but UAW base wages are already in line with the majority of the Japanese auto plants operating in the U.S., Davison said. He represented the union on a panel discussing the future of the auto industry in Indiana.

UAW members employed by Chrysler, Ford and General Motors average $29 an hour in base pay, a level that trails Honda's pay and bonuses and slightly exceeds Toyota's pay, Davison said.

He said that Southern lawmakers demanding UAW pay cuts may be representing the interests of Japanese automakers looking for lower wages in their own U.S. plants.

"I ask you to watch this potential hidden agenda from our GOP friends in the South who represent all these transplants," Davison told the audience of about 100...

Honda workers averaged $31 an hour last year, including bonuses, while Toyota averaged about $27 an hour, Davison said, noting that wages for people newly hired by GM will start at about $15 an hour...

Wages in the Honda plant that opened in October in Greensburg (IN) start at $14.84 and will rise next year to about $18.50.

Robert Scott, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute, a Washington think tank, also appeared on the panel in Indianapolis, where he showed an illustration that put total pay for a UAW member at $71 an hour and pay for a worker in a Japanese U.S. plant at about $49 an hour.

The biggest difference was $16 an hour included in the compensation of the UAW member to cover retirees' pension and health-care costs. Because the Detroit automakers have been in business for more than a century, they have more retirees...

These legacy costs for the Japanese carmakers amount to $3 an hour because their U.S. plants have fewer retirees. Most of the Japanese plants here in the U.S. have been open since 1985.

Boldface emphasis is mine. Yes, I wasn't going to say anything else on this topic but thought that this was important enough to spend 15 minutes typing the majority of the article to share with everyone here.

[lilcraygee]

ok... i think you are all missing something here....
first of all, i would not beat on unions like you do... b/c there are good and bad aspects you have to consider... if it wasn't for unions big companies would most likely thread their workers like shit... pay however they feel like and fire who they want, when they want! Isn't that the reason why unions where brought into this world? On the other side I'll have to agree that after a period of time they took it way to far....
then again... how did the us get to this crisis!? why is there NO money left to get everything INSIDE the U.S straight? rather than spending millions a day to save a country that doesn't even want to be saved....
shit... if the U.S wants to get their shit straight, troops should be pulled out of wherever they are atm... bring em back home and let the military deal with gangs and shit... maybe it'll be save to walk somewhere again in a couple of years...

my 2cents.... now beat on me... and guess what... my dad and brother both USED TO BE in the military.... and no... IT WASNT WORTH SHIT....

sorry for OT in the last part....

[jrumann59]

ok... i think you are all missing something here....
first of all, i would not beat on unions like you do... b/c there are good and bad aspects you have to consider... if it wasn't for unions big companies would most likely thread their workers like shit... pay however they feel like and fire who they want, when they want! Isn't that the reason why unions where brought into this world? On the other side I'll have to agree that after a period of time they took it way to far....
then again... how did the us get to this crisis!? why is there NO money left to get everything INSIDE the U.S straight? rather than spending millions a day to save a country that doesn't even want to be saved....
shit... if the U.S wants to get their shit straight, troops should be pulled out of wherever they are atm... bring em back home and let the military deal with gangs and shit... maybe it'll be save to walk somewhere again in a couple of years...

my 2cents.... now beat on me... and guess what... my dad and brother both USED TO BE in the military.... and no... IT WASNT WORTH SHIT....

sorry for OT in the last part....

Well unions only affect themselves not anyone else. Many states are "at-will employment" which means it is up to the employer if you stay employed. While unions did help up to the 70's and 80's they have been nothing but a bully since. HR rules have caught up to what unions were pushing. As for pulling the troops out every where and bringing them home to "police" the country is in contradiction of The Constitution's Posse Comitatus law. Even though when all of you were arguing over who would be a better president, Congress rolled back the restrictions of Posse Comitatus granting the President of the United states the right to order US military troops, not National Guard, to perform police duties within the borders of the 50 United States.