Rubbing issue. Input please!

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MyNeonSaysHi
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Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:05 am

Well got my new wheels and tires mounted. Started to hear a scraping noise when I hit divets or bumps in the road after my first drive. Well I inspected the wheels and found this. :surprise:
Image Yeah not cool at all. 235/45/17. Hotchkis lowering springs.
230 front rate 15/16" drop in the front
200 rear rate 1 and 3/4" drop in the rear

Stock is 170/125

Read that you do not use bumpstops in the front with those springs. So I guess this is causing more rebound in the shock so it bottoms out and I rub? Any sort of bump in the road or going over a bridge is horrible. Like what they say in that thread.

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f163/ho ... gs-363104/

I mean a 1 inch drop in the front with 235's shouldn't rub? Another shot to give you an idea of the stance with the Hotchkis:

Image

What options do I have to stop the rubbing on the fender? This is what I have so far


-Don't really want to roll my fenders.

-I could go with a Mopar Stage 1 spring setup. But that is a hassle to swap out springs but it could be done and then an alignment. Be around what, $200 or so total. Wouldn't have that nice stance though.

-Coilovers. $1k~ for BC

-Smaller tires? I mean I want to run 235's though. And the tires on there are brand new. Lot of hassle with that too.

Any other input would be appreciated. Thanks

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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by occasional demons » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:28 am

That wheel offset really puts the tire out there. There isn't much room for suspension travel before the fender contacts the tire. Coilovers aren't going to help in themselves, because they won't change the relationship of the tire and the fender.

Your only options are bump stops firm enough to keep it from contacting the fender, or stiffer springs, both will negatively affect ride. Hard bump stops will make things really harsh with only an inch or two of suspension travel, not to mention beat the car to death too.

Or there is rolling the fenders, or wheels that pull the tires inward more, and coilovers if needed, to clear those wheels. Neither of which I'm sure are appealing options to you.

I personally am not a fan of rolling the fenders also. Mostly because it takes away the mounting points for the inner fender liner, which means it needs to be removed. Not a fan of sandblasting the inside of the fender with road debris. I guess there is always Line-X....
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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:24 am

I am leaning towards coilovers. Since I can raise the front up. Plus they are lighter.

Well +35 is ideal for the SRT-4 with a 17x8 wheel.

Oh believe me when I had my old wheel setup on that did not rub they rattled your teeth when you hit bumps/divets in the road. Just now I hear this scraping noise and I found out what that was the hard way. Just glad I caught it soon.

Never thought about that rolling the fender would make you remove the inner fender liner. Yeah now even more of a fan of not doing that.

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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by occasional demons » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:13 pm

If you only had to slightly/mildly bend the lip up to get some clearance, you might still be able to retain the liner. But then the tires may also rub through the liner.

The fenders I got for my '99 had been totally folded in. But other than that, they were very nice. (Far better than the ones it came with)

But I still had to put on a few coats of paint, because the insides were almost bare metal from getting blasted.

Being the vin stickers on the pair did not match, I'm guessing the seller had bought them for the sole purpose of rolling them for tire clearance. They probably returned the car back to stock to sell/trade it.
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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by Neon4Life » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:32 am

My old 2gn had 17s with 35 offset, sat real low. I was on Megan coilovers and what I did to stop from rubbing was rolled the fenders up front, I ran about -1.5 degree of camber and in the rear I had it straight up and down. That's the only way I was able to not rub upfront. Also had to cut away some where the fender to bumper meet because that point stuck out far and hit the tire as well.

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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by JeremyJ » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:10 am

The white wheels did it. Don't say I didn't warn you.

In all seriousness, the coilovers won't help this unless you dial in some negative camber. BCs out of the box drop the car lower than those springs, but I suppose you could raise them up a little more. Personally, I'd aim for a mild fender roll. Just enough angle to clear the tire, without pinching the lip flat. Also, the Mopar springs are excellent, but the drop is almost identical to your current drop, which won't help you.

You're making me nervous about the fitment on mine now. I have a set of those exact rims with 235/40s on their way to me now and my car sits a bit lower than yours. Looks like I'll be putting those camber plates to work.
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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by Neon4Life » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:01 pm

Yep, camber is key. Just don't go too crazy with camber and it'll be fine guys.

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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by JeremyJ » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:46 pm

I was wanting 1-2 degrees anyway. I just hope that’s enough. Any more and it starts looking stupid and killing tires.
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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by occasional demons » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:37 pm

Part of life when working with a platform that never had big tires in the original plan. Lets face it, they didn't change enough on the SRT to really accommodate real tires. They could have narrowed the crossmember a bit, and a few tweaks to the inner body, and actually made it "not a neon". But some real rubber could have been tucked up in there.


Of course it would have screwed all those copy cat SRT's and pillaging parts for the common folk neons. And really stroked some egos...


Every time I look at the tires on my Impreza, it makes me sad I can never put those on the neons.

These are the neon (Stratus) wheels/tires on the Impreza. I have another set of those same rims with much larger 215 55 16 winter tires on it. The offset is identical. The only thing I needed was Dodge style lug nuts in the Subaru thread. 205 55 16 is I think the stock 16" size for the Impreza. The tires pictured are 205 50 16.

Image

I like to think of it as the hatchback neon that DCX never made.
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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:50 pm

I ended up ordering BC type BR coilovers with rear camber plates. Got a great deal on them shipped. I am tired of the rough ride with these Hotchkis without bumpstops. I have a feeling the front struts are worn out well. Lots of people blow the struts out fairly quickly with the Hotchkis springs on stock struts. Plus not having the bump stops is causing more play.

The white wheels, yup thats it haha. There is another story on the white wheels too. Powdercoating problems. What a headache that was too. Long story short a certain powdercoater thought they could get away doing my wheels without beadblasting them first. Well I caught it before I took them home and they ended up doing it right. Never will take anything to get powdercoated there again.

I am going to bend that one side up carefully. I honestly don't want to hack up my fenders. I have not seen one Neon where it came out good with rolled fenders. Cannot find anyone local willing to roll the fenders. Too much liability. Something I don't trust myself doing. So not going to mess with it.

A 235/45/17 is taller tire then a 225/45/17. I should of went with 235/40/17. But the main suspension guy on srtforums said it should be fine with 45 aspect ratio.

I agree on the SRT not being able to accomodate real tires. It is really sad. I mean factory wheels were 17x6 LOL

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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by Diablo0 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:19 am

Had the same issue on my last set of tires I had for the white car with just 225 tires on 17x7.5 +35 wheels with BC coilover and camber plates. I think my main issue was the front while the rear wasn't as bad. Since I had MannyZ adjustable control arm bars on the rear, I was able to pull those in some in addition to the camber plates enough to clear the fender.

I did eventually decide to buy a cheap knockoff fender roller online and rolled the fenders some. This wasn't my favorite option but it ended up being the option I felt I had to go with.
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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by JeremyJ » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:03 am

I've seen people roll them a little and not turn out like garbage. It seems like the guys who roll them flat, end up with wavy sheet metal and chipped paint. Personally, I'm a fan of the over-fender flare look, but I know I'm in the minority with that one. The thought of cutting the sheet metal on the rear quarters scares the shit out of me, too.
MyNeonSaysHi wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:50 pm
I ended up ordering BC type BR coilovers with rear camber plates. Got a great deal on them shipped. I am tired of the rough ride with these Hotchkis without bumpstops.
Just FYI, don't expect a softer ride with the BCs. They won't bottom out, which is a plus, but they are anything but soft. A friend of mine with Hotchkis springs said they ride way smoother than BCs. He did have Koni inserts, though. I know that my BCs are really stiff. I keep them set at 5/30 and they can be pretty jarring. I'd set them at a 1, but that would feel like giving up.
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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:47 am

Diablo0 wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:19 am
Had the same issue on my last set of tires I had for the white car with just 225 tires on 17x7.5 +35 wheels with BC coilover and camber plates. I think my main issue was the front while the rear wasn't as bad. Since I had MannyZ adjustable control arm bars on the rear, I was able to pull those in some in addition to the camber plates enough to clear the fender.

I did eventually decide to buy a cheap knockoff fender roller online and rolled the fenders some. This wasn't my favorite option but it ended up being the option I felt I had to go with.
My car has the Manny Z or DCR adjustable control arms in the rear. I hear yeah on barely rolling the fender some. I am bout to put the front BC's on and I am sure alignment is everything since I never had the alignment checked on it prior.

Ive seen people roll them a little and not turn out like garbage. It seems like the guys who roll them flat, end up with wavy sheet metal and chipped paint. Personally, I'm a fan of the over-fender flare look, but I know I'm in the minority with that one. The thought of cutting the sheet metal on the rear quarters scares the shit out of me, too.

Just FYI, don't expect a softer ride with the BCs. They won't bottom out, which is a plus, but they are anything but soft. A friend of mine with Hotchkis springs said they ride way smoother than BCs. He did have Koni inserts, though. I know that my BCs are really stiff. I keep them set at 5/30 and they can be pretty jarring. I'd set them at a 1, but that would feel like giving up.
Yeah IF I do roll them I won't do much. Going to just heat it up and lightly tap it with a rubber mallet to get that piece back up. I am pretty sure the strut was very weak or bad on that corner.

I ran BC's in the past on my old SRT-4. Totally disagree. They ran great and almost like stock when it came to quality. Not harsh at all. Now this Hotchkis setup. Different storry. Teeth chattering in the front. But I wasn't stupid slammed.

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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:22 pm

Well started to dab at the front suspension before I head into work today. Looking things over. Look what I discovered on that side that was rubbing....

Image

Yeah check that bottom bolt out! Wonder how long I drove on it like that!

Image

Driver side was fine, it had a lot less rubbing on that plastic portion but it was rubbing. I really don't want to have to bend that up. Going to adjust the coils as high as I can go.

"The front shock mount is 130mm long so with 80mm needing to be in there then the maximum number is 50mm that you can measure from the bottom of the mount up inside to the shock bottom."

not sure how high that will get me.

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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by occasional demons » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:07 am

Got to love how your car is trying to tell you something, but just like when a woman doesn't directly tell what the issue is, you are clueless to what the key is to figuring out the root problem, because well, it wouldn't be any fun for them, if you weren't twisting on the end of the rope for a while...



Glad you found that clevis bolt, and hopefully that alone helps get things going with less, um, friction. :lol:


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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by JeremyJ » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:44 am

MyNeonSaysHi wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:47 am
I ran BC's in the past on my old SRT-4. Totally disagree. They ran great and almost like stock when it came to quality. Not harsh at all.
That's what I heard before I bought mine, which is why I was surprised at how harsh they felt. I wonder if the lighter 2.0 setup is what causes the harsher ride. Or maybe mine came with more preload in the springs or something.

Your car seems to be having a lot of strange issues with what should have been a smooth setup. I hope the coils take care of the issues.
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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by JeremyJ » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:46 pm

Looks like I joined the club.

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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by JeremyJ » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:19 am

So, I set the front to -1 degree of camber and I raised it about half an inch. Then I folded over that front area of the fenders that were making contact and I believe the rubs are now gone. Just FYI.
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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by Neon4Life » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:25 am

Them wheels! I love them. Nice tires too. Both looks great.

Glad you were able to get the alignment set and no rubbing.

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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by MyNeonSaysHi » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:55 pm

Yikes! Yup same thing happened to me. Not sure why its on the passenger side all the time. I posted on the book a while back and people had issues with the passenger side too. Drivers side is fine.

Yeah I ended up heating it up with a hair driver, use rubber mallet and tapped on it to fold it back up. Unfortunately it took a little bit of paint. So I just got done touching that up. Local shop will roll my fenders for $65 a corner. Not going to have it done just yet. I raised my BC's to the max setting in the front. That is with a 80mm still in the strut housing. Lower strut housing is 130mm. So I measured up from the bottom 50mm on that side. Crazy how low it still is on the hihgest setting in the front IMO.

Love silver RPF1's on a silver car by the way. Always wanted those on my silver neon srt-4.

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Re: Rubbing issue. Input please!

Post by JeremyJ » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:53 am

I measured the height of the car on both sides and the passenger side was actually half an inch lower than the driver's side. BC's out of the box, zero height adjustment at that point. So I raised the passenger side up to match and then raised them both another quarter of an inch and my rubs are 90% gone in the front. I'm going to fold over the lips a bit more and they should be completely gone.

They aren't silver anymore. 8-[
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