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i noticed somethign new today...

i was carnering HARD while getting on the freeway tonight, and it felt like my as end was sliding, it wasn't slick out, but it felt like the tail end was gonna swing around on me. i've never felt this before, and i dont like it. what should i do to correct it? ive got an 04 SXT (duh!) and have installed 00 struts with eibach springs, the reaosn i put in the 00 struts is cuz the 04 rear struts didnt have the tabs for the rear sway bar, so it currently has a stock 00 sway bar as well. what would help this problem more, sway bars, or strut tower braces...?


(maybe this should be in suspension huh? mods, if you feel this needs to be moved, feel free to do so.)

I think the tower bars would help, but what is the size of the rear sway bar?

not sure, pretty small.... lol. if i upgrade the sways, ill go with the ACR SRT rear and PT GT front, but for STBs idk what id get, i wanna stay cheap, but not ebay knockoffs, cuz i had one of those and it always came loose

Yeah... I'd recommend the tower strut bars (Front and rear), and beings that you already have a sway bar on there, I would not replace cheap with cheap IMHO. I really like the Suspension Techniques I have cause I can adjust the rear one to give alittle or tighten up.

actually, for the price of $100 from the dealer, the sways from teh ACR SRT and PT GT are a really good upgrade, and ive heard a lot of good things abotu them.

the Suspension Techniques you speak of, is that strut bars or sways? how much were they?

Those were the sways, and modern has them for $290. I'm using the vibrant tower strut bars and I like em, they look good, clean, and not too big like the DC look.

i hoped you checked to make sure your struts were ok..i have an 01 and i have had the rears die on me and it gave me an odd feeling out of the back....i have the rt sways and vibrant strut bars front and rear.

TNK wrote:not sure, pretty small.... lol. if i upgrade the sways, ill go with the ACR SRT rear and PT GT front, but for STBs idk what id get, i wanna stay cheap, but not ebay knockoffs, cuz i had one of those and it always came loose

Thats the setup I have had for forever and I'm still loving it
http://speedandpowerdevelopment.com/PUR ... SION2.html

Dude, why fix it? jDm dRIfT y0!

TNK Some one correct me if im wroing but i think what you are talking about is oversteer/understeer not sure witch. But the larger rear sway bar you use the worse it will get. If you stay on the gass when you are in the corner it will pull the car around there fore keeping the ass of the car behind you. Talk to your old buddy grambo if he ever gets on, or ask one of the autox guys.

kbobob wrote:i hoped you checked to make sure your struts were ok..i have an 01 and i have had the rears die on me and it gave me an odd feeling out of the back....i have the rt sways and vibrant strut bars front and rear.

my struts have been blown forever, since about a month after installing the eibachs on them. why replace them if they're just gonna blow again?


thanks for the info guys! keep it coming!

bigger rear sway = ass end wants to come around more.

I can get the ass end out with my 22mm rear sway on stock struts (in the right corner). If you're doing this at a high rate of speed, good luck. Even at lower speeds I've found it hard to compensate and not lose control. It's 10x harder to "drift" a FWD car over a RWD.

Blown struts DEFINITELY don't help the situation! Been there, done that.

Slick conditions only make the oversteer worse, because it's much easier for the ass end to get out. I learned that when I wrecked the Neon in the rain and paid $2k to rebuild the suspension!!

If you're gonna do it, try and drift a corner that's OPEN and no one coming, at a moderate speed (20-40).

01rtgurl wrote:bigger rear sway = ass end wants to come around more.

Can you explain this to me? I under the impression that the sway bars are to keep the car from wanting to roll, which when the car rolls gives added inertia so the back end will feel like its coming around. With the sway bar it suppose to give more stability and then the only reason why the car would slide is from going excessively fast. This is how I understand things, and if i'm wrong I would love to be corrected. Also, if what you say is correct how does this not diminish the purchase of the product? (I'm not trying to be confrontational, so please take this sincerely.)

hansken_yo wrote:Can you explain this to me? I under the impression that the sway bars are to keep the car from wanting to roll, which when the car rolls gives added inertia so the back end will feel like its coming around. With the sway bar it suppose to give more stability and then the only reason why the car would slide is from going excessively fast. This is how I understand things, and if i'm wrong I would love to be corrected. Also, if what you say is correct how does this not diminish the purchase of the product? (I'm not trying to be confrontational, so please take this sincerely.)

Essentially, it has to do with the sway bar not allowing the rear suspension to flex/twist as much as normal. Think of it like this: when you have the sway, it tries to keep the rear tires linked together for optimum handling. You know what I mean?

Here's a better article: http://www.stockcarracing.com/techartic ... esnt_sway/

Wikipedia wrote:Anti roll bars provide 2 main functions:

The first is the reduction of body lean. The reduction of body lean is dependent on the total roll stiffness of the vehicle. Increasing the total roll stiffness of a vehicle does not change the steady state total load (weight) transfer from the inside wheels to the outside wheels, it only reduces body lean. The total lateral load transfer is determined by the CG height and track width.

The other function of anti roll bars is to tune the high g / limit understeer behavior of the vehicle. The limit understeer behavior is tuned by changing the proportion of the total roll stiffness that comes from the front and rear axles. Increasing the proportion of roll stiffness at the front will increase the proportion of the total weight transfer that the front axle reacts and decrease the proportion that the rear axle reacts. This will cause the outer front wheel to run at a higher slip angle, and the outer rear wheel to run at a lower slip angle, which is an understeer effect. Increasing the proportion of roll stiffness at the rear axle will have the opposite effect and decrease understeer.

At the bottom of the wikipedia article, it lists drawbacks. Such as "waddling". I can attest to that. Broken/bumpy pavement sucks, MOSTLY while cornering. That sway is trying to keep those two rear tires linked together, so you "skip" across the pavement. This will depend on tires as well as your torsion struts in the rear. I replaced mine with the Mopar ones for ~$50 and I DID notice a difference. Bumpsteer in the rear, if you can call it that, is reduced a little. Hard to believe since the rubber is a harder compound, but it worked.

I'll try and find a good article on this for you. It's on someone cardomain, a Miata guy, and Miata guys are crazy about handling. He went as depth as doing writeups on each tire he bought, each suspension piece and how it affected the ride, handling, etc. I'll search for it, as I think it would help everyone out, it's not just Miata-specific.

TIRE PRESSURE: If you lower the pressure in the rear tires, you have more of a contact patch, thereby increasing grip. If you RAISE the pressure, there's less of a contact patch, giving you LESS grip. Try it sometime. (That really applies to dry pavement only--wet or snow is opposite, the more of a contact patch, the more the tire "floats" on top of snow/rain and you will slide easier, whereas a skinny high psi tire will attempt to cut through to the pavement below)

what condition are your tires in? what sizes to u have front vs. rear?

also i wouldn't worry about the oversteer most fwd guys would love to be able to oversteer.

dude, if you have blown struts, that is the beginning of your problem. If I were you, I would upgrade my struts and maybe get a rear stb, then try it out and see what you think. If you need it, you will know - tha is, a new rear sway bar. Right now, on 1gn rt springs, 2gn ACR struts, and stock ACR sways with JUST a rear stb, I can keep it on the road on exit/entrance circle ramps doing well over 65 mph Could just be your struts causing your problemo.

The real answer to your question is this......

If you want the ass end never to surprise you again, upgrade your front sway bar, stiffening up your front torsional resistance (adding a thicker front sway), will induce (create) understeer. Normally, understeer is inherently bad on front drive cars. The Neon however is particularly ass heavy compared to other front drive sport compacts. If you want to induce oversteer (ass sliding action), you want to upgrade the rear sway.

I have seen honda guys remove thier front bar all together, and put a HUGE rear bar on so they can actually hold a really nice drift at low, or high speeds.

I have been hesitant to put my ACR SRT srear sway on as I have "drifted" my car twice now with my BC Coilovers. So I will put the biggest front sway available on my car before I put it on.

So, TNK, upgrade your front bar, it won't happen again.

I noticed that once I replaced my tension struts with ACR srt ones mine got better. I cant say this will help you but made mine feel alittle stronger.

lambostealth is right.

** More bar up front is the easiest fix.
** Combine that with alignment (add some camber) and that will help as well.
** Bigger tires will help move the threshold of tire slip further up the speed chart.
** LSD if you can afford it.
** Adjust tire pressure front and rear. Change one end at a time and match your tire performance to driving.
** Of course any suspension defect MUST be corrected if present (like blown struts)
** Better struts like Koni Inserts

Just some ideas.....

a little less airpressure in the back will help out. Also if your rear tires are a hair smaller in width u want to elimnate that. Some race teams with fwd put smaller tires in the back to elimnate understeer.

a good set of aftermarket struts will help a lot. using lowering springs on stock struts = bad ride/handling and might even be the reason for the oversteer u felt. adding a rear sway thats bigger in size will do nothing more than increase the cars tendency to get loose in the rear. Its a good thing for a car to loose a bit of traction in the rear when cornering hard, and pretty normal. thats where drifting came from, afterall; the art of using oversteer to go faster thru corners. Most people think its all about smoke and show, but real drifting is actually a technique used for faster lap times. Getting at a 45 degree angle like the formula d guys isnt necessary, but cool to watch, which is the whole point of that series.

its all about knowing how far you can push your car, and being able to control it up to its limit.

On another note, my car has a pretty well tuned suspension/alignment and its been known to exhibit some oversteer under moderate braking when turning fairly hard at higher speeds. However, ive learned to control it with practice; it has a lot to do with the nonabs braking needed to get the most out of the car when cornering hard. takes practice to master, but its well worth it.

thank you for the tips and advice wguys. i appreciate it. and i hope to be referrign to this thread in the near future to start workign on the suspension