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Aliright... I finished my brake swap, including the steering rack

my rear is at -2 + deg camber
this is fixable.

my front is at +2 - 3 deg camber
this is problematic.

Why is this happening? How do I fix it (basically, how do i get it to where camber bolts can do the rest to get it at the least into specs - though I would like a -1deg camber)

camber bolts can be gotten at Modern Performance. like $23 a set for front OR rear - order specific.

HUH???

Well, Do you have slots in your struts or have camber bolts already???

Where did you get your knuckles as they seem to be BENT!!! If they cam from a junk yard I'd bet they are bent.

The rack will affect toe mostly unless you are off center with say the left tie rod barely on and the other almost all the way on. So double check your setup and make sure it is in right. If it is still off that much I'd suspect bent parts. PM or E-Mail the full printout especially SAI and I will see what I can do to translate it to you. Type it out here too and I will let you know.

you did a swap on the front and rear?!

Call up ModernPerformance and order some camber bolts for the front, you should be good to go then

I did get the complete front and rear knuckles and spindles from a wrecking yard. I currently do not have camber bolts on the car as before I put the steering rack on I was at +4 deg camber in the front, which camber bolts won't correct. The major problem is in the front... I'm not entirely sure about them being bent as both sides have the same camber, and the spindles work with out any problems.

How would I be able to tell if they are bent? (I could tell when the rear one was bent and I had that replaced).

I went to see about an aligment before I put the rack in and the front was @ +4 deg and the rear at -2 deg (from what I can remember, they didn't print it out for me... just gave me a lecture on how I should have just purchased an SRT to begin with... blah blah blah.)

At this point I put the SRT rack on (challenging none the less) and adjusted the toe as best I could by eye till I go back to see if that helped the camber (would it?).

I need to see you reading listed out again. +4 camber would look like a 1917 Indy Car with the wheels sticking out at the TOP VERY NOTICEABLY.

Try giving me the reading as best you can all at one time. It should not be that far off from what I know. Should be much closer. Make sure we are not talking about Caster too.

Try and give them to me as below

Front ----- in degrees L & R
Camber...................+0.40............-0.23
Caster...................+3.80..........+3.65
Toe.......................+0.05.........+0.04
SAI.......................12.3...........12.5
IA.........................7.2...........4.8

Rear ------ in degrees L & R
Camber...................-1.8..............-2.1
Toe......................0.0..............0.0

Then I can help diagnose. SAI and IA from an alignment machine are very important at this point.

Well I've had the car inspected an all the parts seem to be in working order. That shop said that their other location had the alignment stuff that would work on the rims and that I had to go there. I called and was talking to the guy who said that he has worked on another neon that has done the same thing that possibly needed a special camber kit to correct this issue.
I'll find out tomorrow at 1pm pst.

As for an actual reading, I'll get one of those tomorrow as well.
the first place was like there was nothing I can do so we'll send you on you way... bye bye... why didn't you buy an SRT... and didn't print out the stats. So i'll be sure to get them regardless of whether or not it can be fixed...

here is hoping that it is a special camber kit and all is well

SRT is about the same as a neon anyway. But yeah get those reading and ask specifically for the SAI and IA angles. Those are most helpful.

I will be glad to double check your final results and let you know what ya got.

will do thanks!!!

Well for the time being I had to put the stock front brake setup back on Audry, including the steering rack and I'm back to having a visable negative camber up front... I'm going to get camber kits to get it adjusted to the specs I want, but this is just temporary while I figure out why I had such bad positive camber with the SRT front brakes. I still rockin the rims though

Things I purchased based on the researche I did:
SRT front hub/knuckle/spindle
SRT calipers
SRT steering rack

These were the things deemed necessary for the front conversion... that I know of... did I miss something here?

after getting 3 seperate inspections none of the mechanics think that the spindles are bent because the camber on both sides is practically the same.

Sooo, this is the boat i'm in for the time being, any suggestions?
Would the lower control arms make the difference?...

Some other things that I've noticed while doing the brake swap... though it is not necessary for actual braking to have the brake master cylinder from an SRT, I think it will make a world of differince for a firm pedal.

Here is the alignment diagnostic from the complete SRT brake setup in degrees:

Front Left:
+3.6 camber
3.8 caster
5/8" toe
14.8 SAI (what is this?)
18.4 Included angle

Front Right:
+3.3 camber
3.5 caster
1/4" toe
15.0 SAI (what is this?)
18.3 Included angle

Rear Left:
-1.9 camber
1/8" toe

Rear Right:
-2.0 camber
1/8" toe

Your included angle is WACKED out of its mind.

Should be closer to 13-14

You probably need to slot you struts at the knuckle mount so you can correct Camber and IA.

Got to goto work will get back to you with more later.

SAI is Steering Axis Inclination
IA is Included Angle


Camber = The Inward (-) or Outward (+) tilt of the tire when viewed from the front.
Caster = The front (-) or rearward (+) tilt of a line drawn through the ball joint and center of the upper strut mount bearing as viewed from the side.
Toe= The inward (+) or outward (-) direction in which the tires are tilted while viewed from above.
SAI = The same line as drawn from Caster as viewed from the front.
IA = SAI + Caster

So if say only one side is bad after you adjust Camber, Caster, and Toe as best you can... Look at SAI and IA. If they are significantly off more than say a half degree you can start looking for a problem. IF IA is good but SAI is off you have either a bent Frame or control arm generally. If SAI is OK and IA is wacky then you have an issue with The strut and or knuckle.

With yours being even it seem for what ever reason you have parts that do not belong together. Corrective action could possibly be camber bolts in both holes to allow for greater range of motion. Might be your best bet or possibly slotting the struts.

Hey guys anyone who has done this before has anyone run into this problem????

This is weird......

I know Quicksilvr installed srt brakes, and I do believe he had no problems... PM him, he has a new job so is busier. He can answer for sure whether he had a problem with it.

Well after contacting a strut manufacturer Hitachi (tokico) the strut clevis bracket geometry is the same. So now we need to find out what the difference is in Sub-Frame or LCA. I know their is different LCA part numbers but the one place I could find only listed one Subframe. So now wee need to see if their is a track width change which would change SAI and IA.

yeah, my bro in law is going to take a look at it when we do the engine swap... I don't know exactly what to look for with this problem... Thanks for your help

Quick tidbit of info since I'm following this. I've compared the Subframe (k-frame) and LCAs and both are identical in shape, only real big difference for the LCA is the SRTs have another plate of steel in them to help stiffen them up. The K-Frame also has a little bit of a different bottom to it which could just be a design change and there is another hole where the power steering cooler bolts to it. Besides that they're the same

Bushings in the LCA shot or anything?

Bushings shot...??? I wouldn't know... how could I tell?

Also thanks for the info on the K-fram and LCA... that will save me some $$$

For reference I just re-adjusted my 04 SE for steering wheel center with below listed mods. Actually found a broken clevis bolt out back, YIKES!!! All Better now.

Front Left:
-0.8 Camber
+2.8 Caster
+0.04 Toe
+14.0 SAI
+13.2 Included Angle

Front Right:
-0.7 Camber
+2.9 Caster
+0.02 Toe
+14.2 SAI
+13.5 Included Angle

Rear Left:
-0.8 Camber
-0.04 Toe

Rear Right:
-1.0 Camber
-0.02 Toe

i always thought if you put the srt knuckels on a neon woth the neon rack that it would force the alignment into a neg chamber.

The rack and pinion would only affect toe alignment as camber is only set by the relationship between the knuckle and strut as compares to the angle set between balljoint and center of axis of the strut mount.

The balljoint to strut bearing center axis angle being both the caster when viewed from the side and Steering axis inclination when viewed from the the front.

The Knuckle(an its built in spindle angle versus mounting points) to Strut Geometry creates the Included angle which is Steering axis inclination and camber added together.

The problem with racks is the inner tie rod length varies to match the spindles steering arm it was designed for. So only a toe issue with the rack.

From digging on this issue the rear mounting points of the rear subframe and rear of the control arms between an SRT and a Neon are identical and the control arm geometry is the same with only bracing differences for strength (so would be the ones to get in the even you need new ones). Compare this to identical chassis layout for strut tower mounting points. After talking to several strut manufacturers I have found the clevis geometry(strut to knuckle mounting points) is the same. So the struts spring perch height and springs are the only geometry changing thing in the front end for the following angles--- Camber, Caster, SAI, IA.

Hope this helps clear things up. Any questions just ask and feel free to PM me.