Suspension analysis - a first look

Have some questions about how to achive better handling and stopping power using different springs, upgrading to coilovers, questions on swaybars, bushings, different rotors, pads, ect... Having any steering problems or questions about steering racks, tie rods, tie rod ends, ect... ask these questions here.
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jphillips
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Suspension analysis - a first look

Post by jphillips » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:18 pm

These examples and the admittedly brief discussion points are only meant to help understand the relationship between changes in ride height, strut inclination and roll center. The purpose is only to help the reader understand relationships, not the optimal values for any specific application. In the 8 figures provided, the following suspension parameters will be adjusted:

A 2” drop in ride height. The principle effect of which is the change in angle of the lower control arms (LCA). Using virtual “camber plates”, the upper strut mounting point is moved inward in the “negative” camber direction a total of 2”. For each scenario, figures of a 4 deg. roll are also provided. This would be a rough equivalent to heavy cornering on relatively soft springs.

The diagrams do not take into account reactive caster and resultant chamber changes from steering deflection.

Figure 1
Figure 1 depicts a basic strut suspension, as viewed from the front. Note in the upper left corner “Ride” is ride height, and “Roll” is the degrees of roll. Note the location of the Roll Center (“RC”) at 3.432” above ground, in the center of the front track, marked by a blue X in a brown box. The brown lines denote where the instance centers are located. Note the brown lines coming off the top of the strut are 90 deg. to the strut inclination, and pass through the inner two pivot points in the lower control arm (LCA). They intersect outside the track, the distance of which is noted as Ins.Cen. Negative numbers are to the drivers left and positive to the right. The roll examples would be equivalent to a left-hand turn.


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Figure 2
Figure 2 depicts the suspension parameters in Figure 1 with 4.00 deg. of roll. Note that the roll center is above ground and within the front track. The –16.215” tells us that the roll center migrates 16.215” from center under 4.00” deg. of roll while cornering left, and migrates to the inside of the turn.

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Figure 3
Figure 3 depicts the suspension parameters in Figure 1, with –2.00” of Ride; a lowered ride height of 2”. Note the angles of the lower control arms (LCA); the inner pivot points are lower than the outer pivot points. The roll center height (RCH) is now -.402” (below ground). Our instant centers have shot out to 145”, from 98”.

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Figure 4
Figure 4 depicts the suspension parameters of Figure 3 with 4.00 deg. of roll. Note that the RCH has migrated above ground (it’s off the image to the left), and has migrated 100.149” from the center of the front track, to the left (outside of the turn). Note that prior to lowering in Figure 2, the RC was 16” to the right (inside of the turn).

Image

Figure 5
Figure 5 depicts the parameters in Figure 1, but with the upper strut mounting points moved inward 2”, as would happen if you set your camber plates to “full negative”. Note that the RCH is now at 4.000” vs. 3.432”, a gain of 0.568”. Also, our instant centers have shortened roughly from 98” to 74”.

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Figure 6
Figure 6 depicts the parameters from Figure 5, with 4.0 deg. of roll. Our RCH dropped to 3.223” and migrated 12.048” to the inside of the turn. When compared to Figure 2, where the strut inclination axis was left alone, the effect of 4.0 deg. Of roll on both RCH and lateral migration of RC is reduced.

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Figure 7
Figure 7 depicts Figure 5 with a 2.0” lowered ride height. So, now we have a lowered ride height and our virtual camber plates set to “full negative”. You’ll note RCH is now above ground at 0.392”, versus what’s depicted in Figure 3 where it is .407”. That’s a change of 0.799” in RCH with the additional strut inclination. Instant centers are also 89”, instead of 145”.

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Figure 8
Figure 8 depicts Figure 7 with 4.0 deg. of roll. So, here is a 2” lowered ride height, virtual camber plates set to “full negative”, and 4.0 deg. of roll (in a corner). Note the difference in lateral location of RC as compared to Figure 4; it’s changed a +100” from the center of the front track on the outside of the turn, to -255” to the inside of the turn. A drastic difference, considering only the strut inclination (camber plate position) has changed. Our RCH is also 15.392” below ground, versus 6.477” above ground in Figure 4.

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I started this in response to a statement that someone made to me about lowering a car, even without changing anything else is always beneficial to handling due to lowered rollcenters and a lower center of gravity. As shown above, this simply isn't true. In fact, I'm pretty shocked to see that the opposite is true!

Hopefully, I'll have access to some corner scales at the very least and possibly a full chassis dyno soon - then I'll be able to come up with some less generalized conclusions.
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ThrIsNoSpork
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Post by ThrIsNoSpork » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:56 pm

less generalized...
i hope that was sarcastic
haha

jphillips
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Post by jphillips » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:07 pm

it's actually extremely generalized/simplified.... I don't have the measurements for castor/rear inclination or anything resembling ackerman radii... :( I could probably directly measure this stuff to put it in the model, just don't have the time to take shit apart for measurement
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fixitmattman
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Post by fixitmattman » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:24 pm

That's still assuming the same spring rate between the two is it not? Just lowering a vehicle like that isn't good. Doing it properly with stiffer springs/roll bars/proper geometry setup to control roll center movement does wonders and will always be benificial. Dropping the cg of the vehicle is always a good thing when done right.
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Post by jphillips » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:32 am

no spring rates or inertia/moment of inertia calcs were performed - geometry analysis only
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ThrIsNoSpork
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Post by ThrIsNoSpork » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:36 am

so what you are saying is that lowering the car on springs alone will cause worse handling?

jphillips
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Post by jphillips » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:56 pm

...assuming you got 4deg of bodyroll on the 2" dropped springs, yes.

I'm on Kazeras and actually like the handling improvement over stock - there's *so* many factors that determine peak lateral loads (after all, the net result of everything is lateral turning), that it's hard to nail down specifics. Someone asked a question about the Neon that I didn't have an immediate answer for, and I've been curious as to how a macphearson suspension reacts to geometry changes since almost all of my work and knowledge comes from independant wishbone setups... At the time of the discussion, my assumption was a straight drop destroys handling because it throws the rollcenters completely outta whack - which the math supports. *BUT* the car feels like it handles better with the drop - what's that attributed to? I'd have to say that the biggest thing is the change in spring rate above all else - the increased weight transfer increases the lateral on that corner. If I had some wider/stickyer tires on the front, I'm sure I'd notice any aberrant geometry behavior but as it is it does dam well for spirited drives in the canyons.

Eventually I'll work the complete maths on the '03-'05. It's doubtful I'll be able to include complete empirical ARB effects tho - I've yet to see an actual spring rate number for any kind of aftermarket rollbar, only diameters. I can't even guess at the lb/ft values since they don't even list the material they're made out of (spring steel has some assumed values like aluminum has assumed values - 6061-T6, etc)... If anyone has any specific spring values to work from, it'd help.

I've made some assumptions based on ARBs on the Neon in the past and it'd be nice to back 'em up with some solid tech. I'd also be able to answer a few "what if" questions regarding spring rate changes and such with fairly decent ballpark figures. I'd also be able to come up with fairly good chamber/castor values and most likely damper settings as well once all the numbers are plugged in.

We don't have anyone running any kind of data aquisition on a neon, eh? :D
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fixitmattman
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Post by fixitmattman » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:44 pm

If you want estimates on spring rates of roll bars you're stuck with measuring them physically. Not hard to do, just time consuming. Could always call the aftermarket bar mfgs and see if they give you a sping rate.
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jphillips
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Post by jphillips » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:10 am

anyone?
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