What Coilovers? Now with pics, BC coilover guys please help.

[hansken_yo]

Cartridges are only $99 and you would also need to make sure that you get the dampening dials for the standard coilovers.

These are the standard bC coilovers whcih i would recommend. They are the best bang for the buck. I'd also get the rear camber plates if you think you have any intention of being specific with your camber.
http://www.modernperformance.com/coilov ... -1551.html

[Mopar65]

Cartridges are only $99 and you would also need to make sure that you get the dampening dials for the standard coilovers.

These are the standard bC coilovers whcih i would recommend. They are the best bang for the buck. I'd also get the rear camber plates if you think you have any intention of being specific with your camber.
http://www.modernperformance.com/coilov ... -1551.html

Thanks I checked those out, honestly I think your neon has the best stance on all of 2gn so whatever set up you are running is exactly what I want.

[hansken_yo]

Thanks, here is a general description of that stance.


BC Coils (Standard in the Front, Inverted in the Rear)
SRT Rims with a 205/40/17 profile tire (Toyo Proxy 4)

3.5" height at the first pinch weld behind the front tire with a 1.5" Rake to the rear pinch weld in front of the rear tire at 5"

-1.75* camber in the front, -1.25* camber in the rear.

[Mopar65]

So you have those $1000 BC coilovers from modern or the more expensive ones? Sorry I'm so damn stupid lately

[Mopar65]

I contacted BC Racing of North America with the picture and they told me that the coilovers came from a different BC than them. I'm so damn confused now that there is apparently to BC's I have no clue which is which grrrrr

[hansken_yo]

So you have those $1000 BC coilovers from modern or the more expensive ones? Sorry I'm so damn stupid lately

Long story short: I got the more expensive "inverted" coilover at first, but the fronts blew out in less than a year and were covered under warranty. After talking with them and discussing the warranty issue I found out the they have been having lots of problems with the inverted not being able to handle the street (hence why they reclassified them). As such, I got the non-inverted (standard) cartridges as replacements so that I wouldn't have the same problem continuing on in the future. They also recommended this even though I track the car. We discussed my driving styles and really determined that the standard cartridge will perform as well as the inverted.

[bone-yard-racing]

EIBACH EIBACH EIBACH EIBACH

Oh I forgot to be slammed you need 36 way adjustiable dampers, with any luck maybe just maybe the adjusters on the BCs will be connected to something and sort of adjust the way you turn the knob
Or you could make your own.

Or put on the spendy pants and buy proper dampers.

The eibach c/o's arent even dampening adjustable... What in the world do you consider a "proper" damper? The BC's are superior to the Eibach's available for the PL chassis.

I put it in red for you. What to I believe to be a proper damper? Ive said it a million times DYNO PLOT in english and of more than 1 damper.

It been show by a shock specialist(Ill dig up the link later) that a vast majority of the cheap dampers adjustibality is a joke either the adjusters dont work or the work the opposite way you want, or, compression adjusters that change rebound more than compression. I would rather take a non adjustiable(however they are user rebuildiable and revalvable) damper that I know was built by people who know what they are doing than one made by some 4 year old Mylasian just so I can have ZOMG mad cool 1,759,728 way adjustiable dampers

[Mopar_Korean]

EIBACH EIBACH EIBACH EIBACH

Oh I forgot to be slammed you need 36 way adjustiable dampers, with any luck maybe just maybe the adjusters on the BCs will be connected to something and sort of adjust the way you turn the knob
Or you could make your own.

Or put on the spendy pants and buy proper dampers.

The eibach c/o's arent even dampening adjustable... What in the world do you consider a "proper" damper? The BC's are superior to the Eibach's available for the PL chassis.

I put it in red for you. What to I believe to be a proper damper? Ive said it a million times DYNO PLOT in english and of more than 1 damper.

It been show by a shock specialist(Ill dig up the link later) that a vast majority of the cheap dampers adjustibality is a joke either the adjusters dont work or the work the opposite way you want, or, compression adjusters that change rebound more than compression. I would rather take a non adjustiable(however they are user rebuildiable and revalvable) damper that I know was built by people who know what they are doing than one made by some 4 year old Mylasian just so I can have ZOMG mad cool 1,759,728 way adjustiable dampers

Yeah but your missing a major detail. MOST neon owners do not race their cars on such a level where all this come into play. MOST neon owners want a lower ride height, a "tighter" handling car, and less body roll. The only correct way to lower a neon would be with coilovers, unless you like blowing struts and riding on bump stops.

Even BCs would suffice for most weekend autocross events. Most of us dont have the funds or driver skill to be competitive nationally. And if we did/were, most of us would get a lighter, faster (with DOHC and a 3.94 trans) 1st gen.

Fully custom coilovers would be great to have and I really do applaud you for all your knowledge. Suspension is one of those thing that most people don't understand due to its complexity and vast amount of variables. But again MOST neon owners cant afford or justify 3k+ on coilovers for a street car.

If we all drove EVOs, STis, GTRs, Supras, ect. I could easily justify 3k+ on coilovers. But buying coilovers that cost the same as my cars doesn't make good financial sense.

Different strokes (haha get it? strokes in a suspension post) for different folks. Just my $.02

[Mopar65]

Honestly I really don't know shit about suspension. I just want slightly better handling and a lower car that I can raise up a bit in the winter months. So these coilovers I found look good to me, but I have no clue if they are what I am looking for (height adjustable + handling improvement = sexy stance), so if anyone can just say yes or no on these based on opinion or experience I would really appreciate.

[bone-yard-racing]

The eibach c/o's arent even dampening adjustable... What in the world do you consider a "proper" damper? The BC's are superior to the Eibach's available for the PL chassis.

I put it in red for you. What to I believe to be a proper damper? Ive said it a million times DYNO PLOT in english and of more than 1 damper.

It been show by a shock specialist(Ill dig up the link later) that a vast majority of the cheap dampers adjustibality is a joke either the adjusters dont work or the work the opposite way you want, or, compression adjusters that change rebound more than compression. I would rather take a non adjustiable(however they are user rebuildiable and revalvable) damper that I know was built by people who know what they are doing than one made by some 4 year old Mylasian just so I can have ZOMG mad cool 1,759,728 way adjustiable dampers

Yeah but your missing a major detail. MOST neon owners do not race their cars on such a level where all this come into play. MOST neon owners want a lower ride height, a "tighter" handling car, and less body roll. The only correct way to lower a neon would be with coilovers, unless you like blowing struts and riding on bump stops.

Even BCs would suffice for most weekend autocross events. Most of us dont have the funds or driver skill to be competitive nationally. And if we did/were, most of us would get a lighter, faster (with DOHC and a 3.94 trans) 1st gen.

Fully custom coilovers would be great to have and I really do applaud you for all your knowledge. Suspension is one of those thing that most people don't understand due to its complexity and vast amount of variables. But again MOST neon owners cant afford or justify 3k+ on coilovers for a street car.

If we all drove EVOs, STis, GTRs, Supras, ect. I could easily justify 3k+ on coilovers. But buying coilovers that cost the same as my cars doesn't make good financial sense.

Different strokes (haha get it? strokes in a suspension post) for different folks. Just my $.02

You are 100% correct however there is no black magic in suspension stuff and there is no reason not to understand it. If I can teach one person one little thing about suspension stuff Im happy.

Off brand coilovers fall short in more ways than performance as Ive said quality is usually sub par. Cheap camber plates clunk and bang. Finding someone on the service lines(if they exist) who is truely knowlageable is difficult. The klevis area is made of sub par material and after a few years will wear away to the point that the knuckles will move inside the klevis and you cant go very far torque wise without cracking them. Springs are of low quality and the split on spring rates can be 20% (a truely huge number)

And so on. Call Eibach's tech line they will talk to you until all your questions are answered about their product. They make their own dampers in house in the USA in fact a large number of them are assembled by hand. They offer a great waranty and a fairly cheap rebuild if you dont want to do it yourself. There are no adjusters to stick or fail. They use high quality springs with almost no varance in the rates. As far as cheap coilovers that will vastly improve handling, give you any stance you want, allow you to raise the car for the winter, allow you to corner weight the car if you want. I honestly dont think you can find a better deal.

When you disregard this advice and buy something else maybe take this piece. You need to match the spring rate and the damper rate for the best ride quality softer damper settings will make the car ride worse

[Mopar65]

And so on. Call Eibach's tech line they will talk to you until all your questions are answered about their product. They make their own dampers in house in the USA in fact a large number of them are assembled by hand. They offer a great waranty and a fairly cheap rebuild if you dont want to do it yourself. There are no adjusters to stick or fail. They use high quality springs with almost no varance in the rates. As far as cheap coilovers that will vastly improve handling, give you any stance you want, allow you to raise the car for the winter, allow you to corner weight the car if you want. I honestly dont think you can find a better deal.

Thanks for all the helpful info, but unless I'm missing the obvious, the eibach coilover system is almost $3,000 which is by no means cheap lol

[Mopar65]

So I emailed the guy about more details for the coilovers and got this:

No worries. BC Racing is a company based in Taiwan called Bor Chuann. They have been making coilovers for the US market for companies that private label them. Can't remember the names of the companies off hand. About 4-5 years ago they began selling them in the US under their own name through an importer in Florida (BC Racing NA). We were looking to private label them as well and BC Racing in Taiwan sent us several sets to install and try out before we decided to private label and buy a larger quantity. This set was one of those sets. They changed the colors and stickers for BC Racing NA so that's why they may have said it wasn't theirs. But these are BC Racing coilovers straight from the factory.

They are not inverted. They are the standard tried and true design they have used for years with 32 way adjustment. We were pretty impressed with them when we tested them on a civic. They felt like a step up from a stock spring then with the dampening turned up all the way it almost felt like a race spring.

As for retail, I can't remember. I think the other companies that private labeled them were selling them for $1200 when we were looking into it. We were going to come in at the $1000 price point. I've seen them as low as $800 when I priced these out to sell but that was the lowest I have seen them.





That sounds pretty legit and I mean seems to have everything you guys suggest. The fact that they are from Taiwan or whatever is somewhat sketch

[bone-yard-racing]

http://www.modernperformance.com/eibach ... -1653.html

$1000


A few red flags from the BC guys:
Taiwan is not known for motorsport as several of the BC retailers Ive seen claim
Bor Chuann is only listed on the record since 1999. The major players in suspension have 50+ years on heratige. The Konis on my monza (Bought in 1977) are compariable to a Koni sport made today
Never Never Ever should you use the damper to increase the rate of the suspension of course it works if you are limited by the rule set you are racing in but with a proper coilover you should use the spring rate you want and match the damper to it

[Mopar65]

Thanks again bone-yard racing. I feel it's safe to say that you know your shit pretty damn well, so Im going to pass on the "BC" coilovers I found and continue saving for the Eibachs

[bone-yard-racing]

^ They were used? You really should never buy used dampers unless you plan on getting them rebuilt right away. The best thing about the BCs is the waranty and I doubt it is transferable

[Mopar65]

^ They were used? You really should never buy used dampers unless you plan on getting them rebuilt right away. The best thing about the BCs is the waranty and I doubt it is transferable

No, they are NIB for $500

[bone-yard-racing]

If you just want to bring the car down that is a hell of a deal. The Eibachs are better but I cant say if they are $500 better

[Mopar65]

If you just want to bring the car down that is a hell of a deal. The Eibachs are better but I cant say if they are $500 better

That's the information I wanted right there lol. I like the way my car handles right now on stock suspension and realistically I will never make it out to do auto-x and if I do it would only be a few times ever. I really just want them for the height/stance as well as a slight improvement in handling, it doesn't have to be anything incredible. So are the Bor Chuan Coilovers a separate company from the BC coilivers on modern, or are they just sold through the same BC as advertised on modern? Or hell is there even more than one BC company who makes suspension parts?

Mike

[Hudson_Neon]

if i understand it right. some are direct from Taiwan. some are made for US sales. that's the diff

[bone-yard-racing]

If you just want to bring the car down that is a hell of a deal. The Eibachs are better but I cant say if they are $500 better

That's the information I wanted right there lol. I like the way my car handles right now on stock suspension and realistically I will never make it out to do auto-x and if I do it would only be a few times ever. I really just want them for the height/stance as well as a slight improvement in handling, it doesn't have to be anything incredible. So are the Bor Chuan Coilovers a separate company from the BC coilivers on modern, or are they just sold through the same BC as advertised on modern? Or hell is there even more than one BC company who makes suspension parts?

Mike

Even with possible quality and service issues they are so much cheaper its worth the risk. From what I understand BC is just Bor Chaunn's US marketing alias

[fixitmattman]

Off brand coilovers fall short in more ways than performance as Ive said quality is usually sub par. Cheap camber plates clunk and bang. Finding someone on the service lines(if they exist) who is truely knowlageable is difficult. The klevis area is made of sub par material and after a few years will wear away to the point that the knuckles will move inside the klevis and you cant go very far torque wise without cracking them. Springs are of low quality and the split on spring rates can be 20% (a truely huge number)

After ripping some BC's apart I can attest that they are typical tiwanese/chinese build quality which we all know isn't the highest, but they're not THAT badly built. Big thing I notice is that most cheap asian companies can't broach anything if their life depended on it (like the planetary gears on obx diff). That's why the adjustment sucks so bad on the damping as the detent profile for the orifice neededle is broached about as straight as gay pride week. But really, you just set the damping once (usually full hard) and leave it alone. Fiddling with most cheap adjustable dampers is like masterbation, it only feels good cause you're plaing with your knob. Other than that a piston in a cylinder isn't the hardest thing in the world to manufacture. Gland and piston sealing design is as effective as anything else on the market. As far as the CLEVIS goes, mine are made of aluminium (probably old chinese pop cans) and are still holding up fine afer a lot of abuse with heavy springs. For what it's worth my car makes LESS suspension noise with the coilovers than it did with stock parts, although I do use stock upper mounts. Really, unless you race every weekend for the price you're not missing much. Most people aren't going to notice the spring rate inconsistancy, nor will it matter as unless you do a full chassis setup with cornerweights your setup is equally as useless. I'll take a set of Ohlins, or Penske any day, but for the difference in cost you can do a lot, like re-work the tiwanese junk to something on par, maybe throw a set of eibach springs on there (the springs are the same dims as off the shelf eibachs) and still have money left over to buy another neon. Really, for something good you're paying at least PER CORNER what an entire set of the best BC's cost, or more. But back to what I said earlier, if you just daily drive with occaisional track time, or want that slammed look you're not going to notice the difference.

Honestly, for the cost difference I would go buy a set of scales and set the car up properly with cheap parts than drop all my money on high price dampers and merely slap them on.

[Mopar65]

Ok I stumbled upon this and this clears this up, these coilovers are the preceding model (VH) to the current BC coilovers (BR) on modern performance. So it's the same exact company, yet the set i am looking at is an older model. Check out the link

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1085379

I called up Import Image in FL and asked them what the difference between the BR and VH series was an it essentially boiled down to being advanced performance with the new BR series over the old VH series. All I need to to is get the camber plates from BC for the VH series if they still have them somewhere lol. The guy I talked to even said that for what I want (lowering and slight increase in performance) that the VH series is fine especially considering the BR series is twice as much.

[Hudson_Neon]

yeah, and the old ones are what Megan Racing sells. at a MUCH cheaper price

[gsxr7racer]

Where are the K-Sports built? I like mine a lot and I believe the adjusters do what they are supposed to, but I am not a suspension expert. They are the Kontrol Pros, and check my sig, my car is pretty damn low, at least 2 1/2" from stock. Don't know for sure, I bought the car lowered!

[FAC3L3SS]

^^ with him. So far, my K-Sports have been great. I can tell when they are softer or harder, and I'm considerably low.

[bone-yard-racing]

The dampers used to be US built they changed suppliers a few years ago and quality took a hit perhaps now the problems have been rectified

[Mopar65]

Ehh, I think I'm going to get the Eibach Pro Kit Springs for a few reasons, my wheel gap goes from 3 inches to 1.2 inches in the rear and front, I can run them in the winter, my car isn't fast enough to justify such an upgraded suspension (IMO), and these BC's from this guy have no warranty

[hansken_yo]

that's not a bad start. dont forget to get new struts. Either tokicos or KYBs

[ZeroChad]

Matt - I can definitely feel the difference between about 5 clicks on my BCs. It really impacts cornering and highway ride quality.

[OB]

EIBACH EIBACH EIBACH EIBACH

Oh I forgot to be slammed you need 36 way adjustiable dampers, with any luck maybe just maybe the adjusters on the BCs will be connected to something and sort of adjust the way you turn the knob
Or you could make your own.

Or put on the spendy pants and buy proper dampers.

The eibach c/o's arent even dampening adjustable... What in the world do you consider a "proper" damper? The BC's are superior to the Eibach's available for the PL chassis.

I put it in red for you. What to I believe to be a proper damper? Ive said it a million times DYNO PLOT in english and of more than 1 damper.

It been show by a shock specialist(Ill dig up the link later) that a vast majority of the cheap dampers adjustibality is a joke either the adjusters dont work or the work the opposite way you want, or, compression adjusters that change rebound more than compression. I would rather take a non adjustiable(however they are user rebuildiable and revalvable) damper that I know was built by people who know what they are doing than one made by some 4 year old Mylasian just so I can have ZOMG mad cool 1,759,728 way adjustiable dampers

Tell me, how many sets of BC coilovers have you owned? How many have you personally seen on a shock dyno? How many sets of Motons? Ohlins? How can you think you know everything about suspension when you can't even spell the word clevis correctly? How many autox championships do you have? What racecars have you built?

I get what you're saying about the quality of the BC's, and I totally agree that they are sub-standard in comparison to the top brand names. But like many have said before me, most of our members are buying them for a street driven, mildly modified grocery getter, not a racecar. And while I'm a huge supporter of buying name brand quality parts, I think it's a good idea to look at every option. From what I've heard (from people who actually have real world experience) the BC's are actually pretty damn decent. BC stuff can even be found on a few purpose built track cars. Now that doesn't automatically mean they're a great product, but it does tell me that the company is interested in R&D, and that they want to get involved in racing. That's enough of a reason for me to give them a second look.